Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I got my file from Clearview AI

onezero.medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 237 posts

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#111

Post by dredmorbius »

chippy wrote: post #99
dabbledash wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This isn’t even a hard question.

What if everyone around you told you that by not using it you were contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands? Edits - and what if your friends and family tag you and add your details instead? That way you dont need to actively support it.

Herbert Simon, Nobel laureate in economics and one of the fathers of AI, wrote one of the better treatments of the possible future of computer-based data systems in his 1977 essay "What Computers Mean for Man and Society". In it, he addresses concerns: "The privacy issue has been raised most insistently with respect to the creation and maintenance of longitudinal data files that assemble information about persons from a multitude of sources. Files of this kind would be highly valueable for many kinds of economic and social research, but they are bought at too high a price if they endanger human freedom or seriously enhance the opportunities of blackmailers. While such dangers should not be ignored, it should be noted that the lack of comprehensive data files has never been the limiting barrier to the suppression of human freedom. The Watergate criminals made extensive, if unskillful, use of electronics, but no computer played a role in their conspiracy. The Nazis operated with horrifying effectiveness and thoroughness without the benefits of any kind of mechanized data processing."

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a9e7/33e25ee8f67d5e670b3b7d...

There is, of course, one slight problem with Simon's argument: The Nazis did make heavy use of mechanised data processing, provided and supported by IBM. Edwin Black documents this meticulously in his book IBM and the Holocaust:

https://ibmandtheholocaust.com

Whether or not it's possible to transact genocide at similar scale without computerised data records, it's quite clearly far easier to do so with them. Worse, with comprehensive records and rapid identification of any particular meddlesome priest, activist artist, or woman who was warned but nevertheless persisted, it's possible for such regimes, state or non-state, to dip in and retaliate with pinpoint effectiveness. Even the mere suggestion that this is possible can be extraordinarily chilling.

https://mastodon.cloud/@dredmorbius/103059230160200494

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#112

Post by 101404 »

Why is there no arrest warrant against the managers and owners of Clearview here on the EU?

They are using PII of hundreds of millions of Europeans without written consent.

That alone should mean billions of euros in fines.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#113

Post by someguyorother »

JDulin wrote: post #64
40four wrote: post #9

I used to think some of my peers were being overly cautious by purposely trying to obfuscate their online profile. Back in the day, I couldn’t care less about putting in effort to try to protect my online privacy. I have slowly but surely come to see the light. Now it’s at the forefront of my mind at all times. Learning about this company (and I imagine other unknown entities are doing the same) has encouraged me to…

Just for the record, the journalist who broke the story on Clearview noted that Clearview AI has specifically demonstrated it isn't fooled by thispersondoesnotexist.com: https://twitter.com/kashhill/status/1218542846694871040?s=20 You won't be giving them any info on you, but you won't be confounding them either.

In that case, how about the opposite strategy? Take your own picture and a GAN with a latent space feature (i.e. a thispersondoesnotexist that lets you decide age, gender, etc.). Then set the parameters so that you get a picture of yourself. Upload this picture to social media and watch Clearview ignore it, while you still look like you to humans.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#115

Post by hellofunk »

> Perhaps most worrying is the fact that some of Clearview’s data is wrong. The last hit on my profile is a link to a Facebook page for an entirely different person. If an investigator searched my face and followed that lead (perhaps suspecting that the person was actually my alias), it’s possible I could be accused of a crime that the unknown, unrelated person whose profile turned up in my report actually did commit.

Yikes, this is like Minority Report - level weirdness.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#116

Post by ThreeFx »

dredmorbius wrote: post #108
fredsanford wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already here with Google if you use oBlock or uMatrix. Endless Captchas... "We detected suspicious blah blah blah"

My Recatcha policy: https://mastodon.cloud/@dredmorbius/102054627041751386

Ironically that triggered the CloudFlare check for me.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#117

Post by sneak »

DominikPeters wrote: post #25
hedora wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love to see a successful copyright case along these lines. I wonder if this can be combined with adding a “terms of service” to your FB profile. Corporations have perverted contract law to the point where their terms of service are binding even if you never read them, or are even aware of them. Turnabout is fair play, right?

In OP’s case, his profile includes pictures scraped from a privately hosted blog, where adding such terms would be a simple matter.

CFAA enforcement is only for large corporations. Try to get an AUSA to enforce CFAA violations against a big company as an individual person with a website and they will probably laugh in your face.

Remember: there are two sets of laws in the US: ones that apply to you, and another set for large corporations that cooperate with the police and military.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#118

Post by 101404 »

cl3misch wrote: post #63
sdoering wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because nobody in the EU currently has this company on their screens. Or because those who are critical of this company and its practices have not yet reported it to the relevant authorities. In Germany not only the GDPR regulation but also the so-called "right to the own picture" applies here.This means that no one may use/sell pictures of a person without explicit consent. Therefore, photographers must als…

There has been recent activity (article in german). The article claims you could ask for deletion of your data without uploading your ID. https://www.golem.de/news/gesichtserkennung-datenschuetzer-r...

Clearwater did not obtain consent, so the data shouldn't be there in the first place. Each and every data protection Behörde here in Germany should be investigating this.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#119

Post by Nextgrid »

101404 wrote: post #112

Why is there no arrest warrant against the managers and owners of Clearview here on the EU? They are using PII of hundreds of millions of Europeans without written consent. That alone should mean billions of euros in fines.

There is no arrest warrant for Google, Facebook or ad network employees either despite them violating the GDPR on a daily basis and very large scale.

Granted, the GDPR doesn't say anything about arresting offenders, but the companies should at least be investigated and fined, which isn't happening either.

The GDPR is a joke.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#120

Post by Nextgrid »

ArnoVW wrote: post #49
fg6hr wrote: post #29

It's interesting how collecting or distributing files with music is a grave crime and corporations can take down anything they don't like with a half-assed DMCA request, with no repercussions for "mistakes", but a person's face image doesn't belong to that person and the same corporations can safely collect and distribute these images for profit.

Actually, in Europe it is illegal to collect personally identifiable information of people without their consent. GDPR and all that. I am surprised they haven't been fined out of existence yet.

Google and Facebook are still around, so the GDPR is an absolute joke of a law that nobody cares to enforce.
Post reply on HN