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I got my file from Clearview AI

onezero.medium.com

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Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#71

Post by lloeki »

samsquire wrote: post #4

Ideally we live in a society where not being anonymous is not such a big risk. But governments change, the data is still around to be abused. This is what disturbs me. Is how data can be abused in the future.

> This is what disturbs me. Is how data can be abused in the future.

The general 1984 style dystopia vision is that there’s a gov’t change for the worst and you could be SWAT’d out of the blue.

The most probable one is that this kind of tool would be used in far less obvious, if at all visible, ways.

In that situation some kind of honeypot/canary strategy would be nice to reveal shady use but I can’t seem to come up with a realistic one.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#72

Post by Cthulhu_ »

40four wrote: post #9

I used to think some of my peers were being overly cautious by purposely trying to obfuscate their online profile. Back in the day, I couldn’t care less about putting in effort to try to protect my online privacy. I have slowly but surely come to see the light. Now it’s at the forefront of my mind at all times. Learning about this company (and I imagine other unknown entities are doing the same) has encouraged me to…

I grew up with the "don't use your real name on the internet" in the back of my head, this was before kids got internet safety classes.

5-10 years later, Facebook came up with their real name policy and started asking people to snitch on their friends if they used a fake name. Google, and mainly Youtube, came with a real name policy as well, on the one hand for Google+, but on the other to try and fight comment abuse - theory being people are more hesitant to be a dick on the internet if they use their real name.

But people got used to that real fast, and since there was little consequences anyway, it didn't work.

People have valid reasons to use a fake name on the internet; government and business surveillance is a big one. Abusive / stalker exes are another. Having an alternate persona (e.g. entertainers, authors) which people are trying to hide from their un-understanding or abusive family, or society at large.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#73

Post by LockAndLol »

I'm not entirely sure what's so shocking about public data, shared willingly by the person to the public, being used to identify the person. If the data weren't/hadn't been shared willingly, I'd definitely see that as a problem. Same thing as if the data were to have been gleaned from non-public sources e.g the person's private belongings or secured digital realms like private forums, password encrypted backups, private profiles, etc.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#74

Post by lawnchair_larry »

chance_state wrote: post #39
Mirioron wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes even further than corporations being able to request things from being taken down. Kim Dotcom's house was raided by the FBI in New Zealand over this. He isn't even an American!

>Kim Dotcom's house was raided by the FBI [...] Source? The US asked for his extradition and the NZ authorities raided his home, as far as I know.

raided at the request of the FBI (which was at the request of the MPAA) might be more accurate.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#75

Post by Cthulhu_ »

samsquire wrote: post #4

Ideally we live in a society where not being anonymous is not such a big risk. But governments change, the data is still around to be abused. This is what disturbs me. Is how data can be abused in the future.

Exactly. Very current affairs: governments are looking into getting location data from phone networks, apps, phone manufacturers to determine whether people are sticking to the curfews. And this change in perspective happened real fast.

Does the end justify the means? A pandemic like this is the ideal chance for a government to set up emergency measures like martial law, while the people themselves are too busy trying to look out for themselves and their family to be able to protest it.

Of course, anyone with half a brain already knew that unlimited data gathering, including location or personal information, was a bad thing.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#76

Post by Cthulhu_ »

LockAndLol wrote: post #73

I'm not entirely sure what's so shocking about public data, shared willingly by the person to the public, being used to identify the person. If the data weren't/hadn't been shared willingly, I'd definitely see that as a problem. Same thing as if the data were to have been gleaned from non-public sources e.g the person's private belongings or secured digital realms like private forums, password encrypted backups, priv…

It's about trust and permission. If I give e.g. a local news website permission to use my portrait, I do NOT implicitly give permission to Clearview, Google, Facebook, etc to use it for their own purposes.

I mean it's implicitly known that anything you post on the internet is public property, but legally that is not the case. Portrait law (at least in my country). You can't just take someone's portrait and use it for your own gains.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#78

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Kovah wrote: post #50
DeathArrow wrote: post #47

They are using copyrighted images. What if 1000 of copyright owners decide to sue them asking $100 000 each?

One thing you should be very careful about is licensing. If you post photos on Facebook or Instagram, you automatically grant them a license to redistribute the photo and share it with others. And these "others" can include Clearview. So, Clearview could have a contract with Facebook which legally allows them to get and save those photos. So, you are still the copyright owner, but due to licensing Clearview can legal…

They would have to be able to prove that in a lawsuit first. Do they have similar agreements with the alumini magazine? The python coder's meetup group? The personal blog?

Just one of those pictures would be enough for a lawsuit.

Of course, if someone were to sue, they would be heavily pushed to settle out of court. I suspect there's a lot more legal activity going on about things like this, but everyone that starts to make some noise is quickly silenced with a lump sum and a binding contract to shut up about it. If they don't, they're threatened with spending the next 5-10 years in court. Because if there's anything corporate lawyers are good at, it's stalling and making sure the suing party, especially if it's a random consumer, spends years and hundreds of thousands in court fees.

What we need is more rich people suing businesses. Or a massive public defense fund supporting the average joe's case.

But right now it's in the rich people's interests to support shady businesses, and if they don't they'll be offered massive financial incentives on the golf course.

Re: I got my file from Clearview AI

#79

Post by Cthulhu_ »

jachee wrote: post #12

I wonder what would happen if I were to issue them a $5000/mo/piece retroactive license invoice for any/all use of my name/likeness/etc for their profit. I wonder what would happen if everyone did.

A class-action suit that would probably last for a couple years and end in a settlement where the claimants - assuming they fill(ed) in forms x, y and z, would be entitled to at best a few hundred dollars.

See also the Equifax settlement. I'd say Equifax is the best / most recent example about something like this.

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