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Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

bbc.com

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Re: Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

#51

Post by Cerium »

flatiron wrote: post #29
travisporter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dyson said it had been working with The Technology Partnership, a medical company based in Cambridge, to develop a "meaningful and timely response". Maybe a new design can be built faster if it’s from the ground up. This can happen concurrently with ramping up existing manufacturing of vents.

Reinvent the ventilator and have one sitting in a hospital in 14 days with no teething issues on production, training, deployment, maintenance?

Exactly. Anyone who has worked in medical devices knows this is impossible. Saying that you will prepare one as part of a timely response is such nonsense that I don't know what part to start looking at.

Re: Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

#52

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

satysin wrote: post #7
martyvis wrote: post #5

Anyone seen any info on the Dyson AirBlades used for hand-drying in public restrooms? They are very effective at drying , but flick a lot of water up and onto the unit. I guess if everyone has properly washed their hands the WHO way, the rinse water should be safe, but I'm still wondering whether you are risking getting virus from the previous possibly infected person who also doesn't know the words to Happy Birthday…

I hate those god-awful AirBlade dryers. I have long fingers and it is almost impossible to dry my hands without that disgusting pool of water flicking up onto the tips of my fingers. Curl your fingers you say? Not possible due to how narrow the gap is without almost always making contact with the sides of the unit. Terrible machines.

It is surprising this wasn't realized when the machine was being developed. Contacting the pool of water at the bottom, or the sides of the drier, seems reasonably unhygienic.

Re: Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

#53

Post by glenneroo »

arcticbull wrote: post #14

> Some industry insiders have suggested that Dyson's approach to create a new model will take too long. You don't say. You can't just turn a vacuum cleaner into a ventilator by setting it to Blow instead of Suck. Medical devices take a very long time to develop, certify, build, release and develop training for because they're medical devices . The rule of thumb for consumer-grade hardware is it takes a minimum of one…

> This feels like Elon's child-rescue submarine, and at least as far as COVID-19 it's likely to save exactly the same number of people.

Speaking of Elon Musk, his initial plans from a few days ago to also produce some in-house has morphed into the saner goal of acquiring 1000+ units from China, which apparently have already arrived in LA: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-24/californi...

Re: Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

#54

Post by djtriptych »

arcticbull wrote: post #14

> Some industry insiders have suggested that Dyson's approach to create a new model will take too long. You don't say. You can't just turn a vacuum cleaner into a ventilator by setting it to Blow instead of Suck. Medical devices take a very long time to develop, certify, build, release and develop training for because they're medical devices . The rule of thumb for consumer-grade hardware is it takes a minimum of one…

This doesn't even pass the sniff test. If Dyson can produce an 80% effective version they obviously should.

Re: Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

#55

Post by brigandish »

I'm reading the comments and people are questioning the ability to get them done in 14 days or whichever absurdly short space of time you'd want to pick.

There is no evidence this pandemic will be over at any time in the near or long term future, just a thus far folorn hope. For all we know it will persist for a couple of waves of death, then as a mutation, year on year. The fragility of our health systems has been exposed and the ability of manufacturers to ramp up production, or even share designs[0] so they can be fixed in the meantime, has also been show to be lacking so some competition in the space to

a) produce more ventilators

b) hopefully produce better ventilators

c) make them cheaper

cannot be a bad thing. The chances of having an antiviral or vaccine before Dyson completes a viable ventilator are also pie in the sky, so pick your horse and back it, it's all going to be too late for too many.

[0] Italians Found Way to 3-D Print Key Ventilator Piece for $1 to Help Battle Coronavirus—So the Company With the Patent Is Threatening to Sue https://citizentruth.org/italians-found-way-to-3-d-print-key...

Re: Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

#56

Post by icebraining »

et-al wrote: post #26
martyvis wrote: post #5

Anyone seen any info on the Dyson AirBlades used for hand-drying in public restrooms? They are very effective at drying , but flick a lot of water up and onto the unit. I guess if everyone has properly washed their hands the WHO way, the rinse water should be safe, but I'm still wondering whether you are risking getting virus from the previous possibly infected person who also doesn't know the words to Happy Birthday…

Dyson makes a $1500 integrated faucet that incorporates a hand-dryer. https://www.dyson.com/hand-dryers/dyson-airblade-wash-dry-ov... Somehow none of the geniuses in the design world have criticised that the 331mph Air Blade dryer, when pointed at a concave surface, i.e. the sink, would spit things right back in the opposite direction. I've used this faucet/dryer while transiting through Reykjavik and you can see the…

Same here, in an office in Amsterdam. The sink hadn't fully drained when I moved my hand beneath the sensor inadvertently. Result: soapy water everywhere, including the floor and my clothes.

Re: Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

#57

Post by robomartin »

arcticbull wrote: post #14

> Some industry insiders have suggested that Dyson's approach to create a new model will take too long. You don't say. You can't just turn a vacuum cleaner into a ventilator by setting it to Blow instead of Suck. Medical devices take a very long time to develop, certify, build, release and develop training for because they're medical devices . The rule of thumb for consumer-grade hardware is it takes a minimum of one…

I have to say, one of the things that is driving me mad these days is the level of ignorance evidenced by both popular and media conversations about all of this stuff.

I mean, are we watching too many science fiction movies?

Have we lost any connection to what it actually takes to make things?

With over thirty years in technology and manufacturing I would not touch the rapid development of a ventilator with a ten foot pole. As you correctly state, designing such devices takes years. And, beyond that, it takes decades of accumulated experience to inform the decisions and choices made during the design of any modern device. And then there's the years of testing, qualification and supply chain engineering.

No, the only way to make ventilators is to make more of an already proven design under the supervision of the companies already making them. In other words, expand their production capacity by retooling already capable manufacturing environments.

Watching the White House press briefings I can't help but feel that reporters must think Trump is Captain Picard who, armed with advanced replicators, can replicate mass quantities of anything within days. Oh, yes, and he must be Superman too.

In real life things take time. And if your industrial base has been almost completely off-shored, it takes even longer. If it's even possible at all.

Re: Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

#58

Post by brenden2 »

glenneroo wrote: post #53
arcticbull wrote: post #14

> Some industry insiders have suggested that Dyson's approach to create a new model will take too long. You don't say. You can't just turn a vacuum cleaner into a ventilator by setting it to Blow instead of Suck. Medical devices take a very long time to develop, certify, build, release and develop training for because they're medical devices . The rule of thumb for consumer-grade hardware is it takes a minimum of one…

> This feels like Elon's child-rescue submarine, and at least as far as COVID-19 it's likely to save exactly the same number of people. Speaking of Elon Musk, his initial plans from a few days ago to also produce some in-house has morphed into the saner goal of acquiring 1000+ units from China, which apparently have already arrived in LA: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-24/californi...

Elon probably just went on Alibaba and bought some with his credit card.

Re: Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

#59

Post by arcticbull »

djtriptych wrote: post #54
arcticbull wrote: post #14

> Some industry insiders have suggested that Dyson's approach to create a new model will take too long. You don't say. You can't just turn a vacuum cleaner into a ventilator by setting it to Blow instead of Suck. Medical devices take a very long time to develop, certify, build, release and develop training for because they're medical devices . The rule of thumb for consumer-grade hardware is it takes a minimum of one…

This doesn't even pass the sniff test. If Dyson can produce an 80% effective version they obviously should.

No, they shouldn't because an 80% effective ventilator might kill someone when a company that knows how to make ventilators could just produce a 100% effective one.

Re: Dyson has announced it will develop a new type of medical ventilator for NHS

#60

Post by fsckboy »

robertfw wrote: post #41
ipsum2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So essentially a CPAP machine.

CPAPs i believe have been ruled out as they vent exhalations indiscriminately, spreading the virus throughout the space.

that doesn't sound like a terribly hard problem to solve.
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