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CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

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Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#201

Post by DocSavage »

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #192
JDulin wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These problems are not due to an "administration". The rot of American institutions is deep. The competence and coherence of the entire American civil service and civil life has fallen precipitously in the last 20 years, and, in part because of their irrational fixation on this administration, people still cannot wrap theirs head around the fact that problem is in personnel and structure. The CDC botched the developm…

There may be structural problems, but the current administration contributed significantly the poor response to this epidemic. Had they kept existing infrastructure and people in place, things could have gone significantly better. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-... https://blog.ucsusa.org/anita-desikan/trump-administration-h...

There's a lot to be said about WH-level leaders with the authority to corral and force action down the chain. It's bad enough that the CDC and FDA screwed up, but there was no urgency from the top-down that solutions had to be rolled out in a timely matter or alternatives had to be explored even in parallel. You see the difference now, when there's a sense of urgency, and we are willing to break rules, engage lots of different groups to work on efforts in parallel, etc. None of that happens without urgency from the top.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#202

Post by BeetleB »

H8crilA wrote: post #156
kiba wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop threatening criminal negligence charge for every single mistakes people make? It's not going to improve performance in the next pandemic if people are afraid of doing their job or engages in ass covering.

Uhm, yes, skin in the game? Things generally don't improve because people get better. Things generally improve because bad people/groups/corporations/ideas fail. Way more people should be fired / tried / impeached. Need I remind you that nobody went to jail over 2008? It does make the system more healthy. If you're responsible for the health of some country you better be scared , because the consequences are dire, an…

> Need I remind you that nobody went to jail over 2008?

First, this is simply false.

Second, can you name anyone who should have gone to jail and state the law they broke?

Congress had eliminated a lot of regulations that could have prevented or tempered the meltdown. There were not really laws to break. And the population happily kept electing said people.

The electorate had skin in the game. And they did not learn.

Skin in the game is not that effective.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#203

Post by all_blue_chucks »

aazaa wrote: post #121

The damage will be much longer lasting than this. The Chinese bought the US precious weeks to prepare while it locked down vast numbers of its own population. The disaster could have been prevented through a vigorous testing/quarrantine program in Washington and California. At every step of the way the US either bungled testing, or actively discouraged testing. It's been nothing but lies and mistakes from the start.…

CCP deserves no credit for buying time. Any other government would have tried to stop the virus instead of trying to cover it up while it spreads far and wide.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#204

Post by corpMaverick »

danmaz74 wrote: post #175
asquabventured wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this mentality when other Western Nations are going through the exact same thing. Did the administration cause every other countries problems with containing the virus too?

The US was weeks behind Italy in the initial spread of the virus. If the Chinese example wasn't enough to learn, at least what was happening in Italy should have been.

At least for me and many other people, I suppose, when I saw what happened to Italy is when I saw what was going to happen here. It has been painful. It is like watching a train wreck happening in slow motion, and you are in front of the train.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#205

Post by rubatuga »

Natsu wrote: post #188
H8crilA wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm, yes, skin in the game? Things generally don't improve because people get better. Things generally improve because bad people/groups/corporations/ideas fail. Way more people should be fired / tried / impeached. Need I remind you that nobody went to jail over 2008? It does make the system more healthy. If you're responsible for the health of some country you better be scared , because the consequences are dire, an…

That's effectively the complete opposite of how to actually eliminate errors. The way engineers do it involves depersonalizing it to get away from blame games, assessing all contributing causes, doing proper risk modeling and working to improve the systems so that they rely on human frailty as little as possible. Skin in the game is an easy concept we're all familiar with, but it generally leads to adverse behavior l…

I think you're mainly describing the optimal culture for the organization or workplace, but either collectively or perhaps even just the leaders, they must recognize the importance of their decisions and the possibility to cause deaths. That's why research like what you mention is important, it shows how organizations and leaders with "skin in the game" can achieve success.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#206

Post by thombat »

Natsu wrote: post #190
belltaco wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you mention a few scares that you mention that happen "all the time" ?

World War 3 supposedly started in January by some accounts, but is nearly forgotten now. What's some mystery flu in China got on that as far as headlines go? Sure, we can answer this with a bit of hindsight, but it's amazing how quickly we forget even wildly incorrect predictions.

Can you expand on thst WW3 reference - it's not a story that made the rounds here.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#207

Post by Lldjjxnn »

omgJustTest wrote: post #130
kiba wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop threatening criminal negligence charge for every single mistakes people make? It's not going to improve performance in the next pandemic if people are afraid of doing their job or engages in ass covering.

This logic is healthy, however limited here. We had an infectious disease team consulting the president, it was removed. We had a CDC with 6-8bn dollars more funding when Trump took office. We have a president claiming currently that "the cure cannot be worse than the disease"... these are not a hypothetical threat and have direct and immediate consequences in the next months.

I thought the CDC funding cut didn't pass?

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#208

Post by dboreham »

processing wrote: post #110

Getting the test was difficult enough here in California. A bigger problem that isn't being discussed is the delay to get the results. I had a test 10-days ago and still do not have results. Obviously, still self-isolating. The local health county department have taken over issuing the results. Yesterday, after multiple calls they told me to call the hospital as they don't have an answer. Was able to contact someone…

Well in 4 days you don't need to know any more.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#209

Post by Lldjjxnn »

malandrew wrote: post #108
omgJustTest wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China," - WHO. Sounds like these were preliminary results, which would have been well rectified by February. Wuhan was under quarantine Jan 23. There is a substantial difference in being wrong a month or so after a new virus is discov…

Wuhan was under quarantine on Jan 23rd.

Precisely. I don't understand why the WHO would put out such information with reckless disregard of current events.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#210

Post by Lldjjxnn »

sd8f9iu wrote: post #160
asquabventured wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this mentality when other Western Nations are going through the exact same thing. Did the administration cause every other countries problems with containing the virus too?

The US has been far behind other Western countries in testing: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/us/coronaviru... The per-capita chart is most notable. Other Western countries' responses haven't been stellar either, but the US's is particularly flawed.

The FDA had test kits which were flawed. It got caught with its pants down in public. The rest is damage control.
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