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CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

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Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#161

Admittedly, America dropped the ball, tripped over it, and broke it's nose. However, lets not forget that the WHO was also wildly irreaponsible by not declaring this a pandemic sooner.

To the degree that the WHO was wildly irresponsible - and I'm not I'm ready to apply the "wildly" part, it was publishing the terrifying 3.4% CFR when there was no basis for caluculating a denominator at that time.

Even though they've been called out on that by one of the world's foremost experts in the area of research reliability [0], and even though every subsequent study [1] [2] [3] [4] has shown the CFR to be far lower, the extreme measures based on this being a once-in-a-century coronavirus are not only still in place, but being expanded as if that number is still reality.

0: https://www.reddit.com/r/PrepareInsteadOfPanic/comments/fl08...

1: https://www.cebm.net/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/

2: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0822-7

3: https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m1113

4: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092485792...

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember the exact start date when people started noticing we had severely fucked this up, but it's been a common refrain in the media for the last month at least. If you're still asking "where was the media" NOW then you need to seriously reevaluate what media you're paying attention to, because the ones you're looking at are doing you a big disservice. Here's one from a month ago: https://www.latimes.com/wo…

Feb 1st in Business Insider: https://www.businessinsider.com/tests-for-coronavirus-us-mig... Feb 12th in the NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/health/coronavirus-test-k... Feb 12th in LiveScience: https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-testing-kits-flawed.... Feb 12th from Physicians Weekly: https://www.physiciansweekly.com/some-u-s-states-launch/ Feb 13th on FoxNews: https://www.foxnews.com/health/some-co…

I didnt start digging until 2/19; when my daughter went to a clinic for something that "wasn't flu or strep"; and there was no answer about "is there a test for the new wulan virus?"

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#163
We need to look forward here. It's way too early for a retrospective.

And let's have some humility here. No matter what such a retrospective shows, it's pretty hard to learn any real lessons from this kind of thing. We will almost certainly just overfit our institutions to fight the next coronavirus; I doubt we will better at handling crises in general.

It's still possible that the US will have a reasonable outcome. Let's do what we can to make that happen and make use of our advantages. More cars and less public transport may make physical distancing more effective.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#164
The CDC screwing up wouldn't have been so bad without the FDA. I'm just going to quote Scott Alexander here[1] (supporting links in original):

"No problem so bad overregulation can’t make it worse:

So far the government has bungled its coronavirus response pretty egregiously.

Most hospitals have the equipment in house to detect coronavirus. But the FDA banned them from using it. They said all coronavirus tests needed FDA approval, and refused to approve anything except the official test made by the CDC.

Unfortunately, the official CDC test was defective. The test itself worked, but one component in the test kit was broken. Most hospitals had their own supply of this component and could have substituted it in, but the way the FDA approved the CDC test banned them from doing this.

The CDC tried as hard as it could to fix their broken tests quickly, but they weren’t able to do it fast enough to satisfy demand. In order to ration the scarce tests, they mandated that hospitals only test people who had recently been to China, or been in close contact with someone who had.

This was a disaster. For example, here’s a story from a person who traveled to Japan, where the coronavirus is active. He came back to the US, started developing symptoms, and went to a hospital. The hospital said since he hadn’t been to China, they couldn’t test him, and sent him home (he voluntarily quarantined after discharge, so thanks).

But even worse, the policy ruled out by fiat ever being able to detect when the epidemic spread to the US. So in mid-February, when a patient with no history of travel to China came to a hospital in California with coronavirus symptoms, the doctors had to ask the CDC for special permission to test. The CDC dithered for four days before granting the permission, during which nobody put any work into containing the disease. Finally the test came back positive – after some health workers had already been infected.

There were many points where this could have been avoided. A better CDC could have made tests that worked from the beginning, or ramped up production of working tests faster, or come up with smarter criteria for rationing tests. But it would have been even better to have a system where things don’t have to go perfectly, and where a few mistakes don’t choke up the entire response to an epidemic for weeks. If we hadn’t let our culture reach the point where governments ban things by default and review at leisure, and where individual iniative is frowned upon in favor of waiting for official permission to do the right thing, we could have recovered from all of these mistakes. Hospitals would have used their existing tests which they already have more than enough of, doctors would have had permission to test suspicious cases at their discretion, and we would have had a chance to catch infections early before they could spread. If the government didn’t already regulate adrenaline, buspirone, insulin, and genetic testing to the point of near-unavailability, maybe people would have thought it was weirder, or raised more of a fuss, when they started doing it for coronavirus tests.

If you don’t trust me, trust former FDA director Scott Gottleib, who explains the situation here in an unusually candid communication from an ex-government official talking about his former agency. His Twitter feed is a great source of information in general.

And here’s a more careful analysis of some of the laws around diagnostic testing and how they contributed to the current crisis. And by more careful, I mean it ends with “Bottom line: the FDA is going to kill us all”."

[1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/02/coronavirus-links-spec...

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#165
post #121

The damage will be much longer lasting than this. The Chinese bought the US precious weeks to prepare while it locked down vast numbers of its own population. The disaster could have been prevented through a vigorous testing/quarrantine program in Washington and California. At every step of the way the US either bungled testing, or actively discouraged testing. It's been nothing but lies and mistakes from the start.…

The US government is only partially to blame here. Goldman Sachs apparently donated over 100k N95 masks to New York last week. As a personal critic, I did see some of this coming in my own finances and did divest. I should have done more to be outspoken about this risk, but I am daily surprised by how unprepared we were and how few people are speaking out in ways that matter. Kudos to Cuomo. EDIT: I do think the arti…

I’m curious... did GS already have those masks for some reason or did they purchase and then donate them? I thought the masks were is short supply so I’m surprised if a non-health care org was able to purchase 100k masks recently.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the mask shaming that was perpetuated in the US.

You’ll still get looks for wearing a mask. It’s ridiculous.

Have you considered that people are looking at you not because they want to shame you, but because they're trying to determine if you're sick and they should be extra careful around you, e.g. don't touch anything you've touched, etc?

If the guidance so far has been to only wear a mask if you're sick, it seems reasonable to assume that someone wearing a mask is more likely to be sick than average.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#168
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government is only partially to blame here. Goldman Sachs apparently donated over 100k N95 masks to New York last week. As a personal critic, I did see some of this coming in my own finances and did divest. I should have done more to be outspoken about this risk, but I am daily surprised by how unprepared we were and how few people are speaking out in ways that matter. Kudos to Cuomo. EDIT: I do think the arti…

I’m curious... did GS already have those masks for some reason or did they purchase and then donate them? I thought the masks were is short supply so I’m surprised if a non-health care org was able to purchase 100k masks recently.

I will do some reading, but it is my thinking that they had stockpiled them, pre-crash. Will update.

to be explicit, GS has no other purpose to stockpile other than they anticipated... better than hospitals.

EDIT: There are a few stories saying the stockpiled pre-crash. Though some claim they had them since the swine-flu epidemic in 2009. Given the read I had on how the markets might respond, and how much information there was screaming that China's economy had stopped (for example I couldn't get circuit boards etc)... I would bet a lot of money they called this a few weeks before.

[1] https://www.cbs58.com/news/donations-of-respirator-masks-and... [2] https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/goldman-gives-face-masks-t... [3] https://www.wsj.com/articles/financial-institutions-share-st...

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember the exact start date when people started noticing we had severely fucked this up, but it's been a common refrain in the media for the last month at least. If you're still asking "where was the media" NOW then you need to seriously reevaluate what media you're paying attention to, because the ones you're looking at are doing you a big disservice. Here's one from a month ago: https://www.latimes.com/wo…

Feb 1st in Business Insider: https://www.businessinsider.com/tests-for-coronavirus-us-mig... Feb 12th in the NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/health/coronavirus-test-k... Feb 12th in LiveScience: https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-testing-kits-flawed.... Feb 12th from Physicians Weekly: https://www.physiciansweekly.com/some-u-s-states-launch/ Feb 13th on FoxNews: https://www.foxnews.com/health/some-co…

I think the Media the-boy-who-cried-wolf itself. There are scares all the time and people grew (rightly) indifferent. Imagine a responsible media that's not out looking for click grabbing headlines all of a sudden mentioning a would-be pandemic...

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#170
post #121

The damage will be much longer lasting than this. The Chinese bought the US precious weeks to prepare while it locked down vast numbers of its own population. The disaster could have been prevented through a vigorous testing/quarrantine program in Washington and California. At every step of the way the US either bungled testing, or actively discouraged testing. It's been nothing but lies and mistakes from the start.…

These problems are not due to an "administration". The rot of American institutions is deep. The competence and coherence of the entire American civil service and civil life has fallen precipitously in the last 20 years, and, in part because of their irrational fixation on this administration, people still cannot wrap theirs head around the fact that problem is in personnel and structure.

The CDC botched the development & rollout of a pretty simple PCR assay. The CDC happily participated in the 'don't test, don't tell' cover-up of the real # of stateside cases. The CDC and FDA were in territorial pissing matches with one another around test regulation. The FDA has hindered the effective deployment of tests and therapies at every turn. The entire journalistic chattering class was lecturing the American public no more than 2 weeks ago about how over-reacting to the virus or calling it the wrong name was more dangerous than the virus itself. The American economy spent the last 3 decades moving every single manufacturing facility and shred of know-how that could make PPE, ventilators, and pharmaceutical precursors overseas to save a few pennies, and wasn't stopped by the government. And we've now learned Congress was given an accurate assessment of the pandemic threat months ago and chose to... sell their private stocks.

This crisis is not going to result in happy little vision-less "to-do list" for future bureaucrats to improve upon, it is deepening the American people's awareness that the entire bureaucracy & elite class have been shown wanting and must be replaced in their entirety by massive reform of the federal civil service.

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