Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society • Hacker News Board

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#71

Post by dorchadas » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 8:35 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #60

aivisol wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that stroke me yesterday looking at my 13-year old is that children actually suffer more than adults. While we are allowed to take occasional walk out of our homes ( groceries, etc), they are totally locked up - no friends, no school socializing, everything is virtual only. If this lockdown lasts for any long period of time, it might backfire badly on them.

This is a really good point that I think people will slowly figure out. We live in a rural area with essentially no school age kids nearby, so we're very aware that during summer, Christmas break, etc, we have to arrange ways to keep our 10 year-old in contact with kids his age. In summer we usually sign him up for the in-school daycare a couple days a week so he can see his friends and we also arrange to visit other…

Bias warning: I am a public school teacher myself.

And this is also exactly what I feel the people who are now pushing for online schooling in general don't get (apart from the fact there's a non-negligible part of the population that doesn't have consistent/good internet access). There's a lot more to school than just going and learning 'stuff that doesn't affect real life', as some seem to believe. It's about social learning as well, and they're completely underestimating how much this happens in schools.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#72

Post by chatmasta » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 8:36 PM UTC

aivisol wrote: post #34

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

Outside of young, childless tech workers, this sudden remote work experiment is not going well for most people I know. This isn’t the controlled trial of remote work that these think pieces suggest. Instead, everyone is forcefully stuck at home without time to prepare. Parents are juggling childcare with getting work done, while fighting an uphill battle against IT systems that weren’t prepared for everyone going WFH…

One thing that stroke me yesterday looking at my 13-year old is that children actually suffer more than adults. While we are allowed to take occasional walk out of our homes ( groceries, etc), they are totally locked up - no friends, no school socializing, everything is virtual only. If this lockdown lasts for any long period of time, it might backfire badly on them.

Children/teenagers are also losing a time of their life they will never get back. For example, if you're a junior in high school looking to get recruited to college for a spring sport, you're basically out of luck. This kind of extended hiatus from everyday life can alter entire life trajectories.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#73

Post by RangerScience » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 8:39 PM UTC

gdubs wrote: post #31

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

Outside of young, childless tech workers, this sudden remote work experiment is not going well for most people I know. This isn’t the controlled trial of remote work that these think pieces suggest. Instead, everyone is forcefully stuck at home without time to prepare. Parents are juggling childcare with getting work done, while fighting an uphill battle against IT systems that weren’t prepared for everyone going WFH…

It’s also been a week . Like you said, this is anything but a controlled experiment. People are trying to push through a lot of psychological stress right now. Families are suddenly responsible for homeschooling — 2 young kids and a toddler in our case. It’s a lot. If people look back at this period and use it to judge the effective remote work is, that would be pretty ridiculous. (Of course, some people who are fund…

I was talking with a friend and former educator last night. She's been thinking about the child care and homeschooling issue a fair amount; how parents can organize their day (such as when to take lunch) to best care for their kids.

Then, a lot of performing arts folks I know are trying to find work, and one of the suggestions is remote nanny'ing (aka, entertaining your kids over video),

I think there's an opportunity to self-organize people to address these things. Out among all of us us, there's enough expertise, desire and shared need.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#74

Post by randomdata » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 8:43 PM UTC

api wrote: post #51

zxcmx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our ancestors got their children working as soon as they were able. Farm work, piece work, factory work, whatever. Kind of frowned upon now.

It's not possible now. I'd say a good 80% of the work I do requires at least a year of intensive study and/or hands-on learning to even be capable of attempting and another 5-10 years to master. Nowadays someone needs a minimum of four years of college to be able to do anything. You can't start contributing to society until you're 20. Everything easy has been automated or outsourced.

> I'd say a good 80% of the work I do requires at least a year of intensive study and/or hands-on learning to even be capable of attempting

One year is nothing, really. As a farmer, the work I do required about a decade of study before I could be productive on my own, and I'm still working on mastering it. In the days of yore, farm kids had to start engaging with their teachers as soon as they could as it was the only way they were going to be able to be capable of attempting the practice once they reached adulthood.

> Nowadays someone needs a minimum of four years of college to be able to do anything.

Well, you need four years of college to get past the gatekeeping. Gatekeeping that is setup because the work has become so much more accessible, necessitating means to cull competition. You don't have to start as a young child nowadays like the farm kids used to have to. You can easily coast into adulthood without even thinking about a career.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#75

Post by gvjddbnvdrbv » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

chatmasta wrote: post #72

aivisol wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that stroke me yesterday looking at my 13-year old is that children actually suffer more than adults. While we are allowed to take occasional walk out of our homes ( groceries, etc), they are totally locked up - no friends, no school socializing, everything is virtual only. If this lockdown lasts for any long period of time, it might backfire badly on them.

Children/teenagers are also losing a time of their life they will never get back. For example, if you're a junior in high school looking to get recruited to college for a spring sport, you're basically out of luck. This kind of extended hiatus from everyday life can alter entire life trajectories.

Death alters it rather more.

Without these measures a lot of folk will die a lot sooner than they should.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#76

Post by slavapestov » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 8:58 PM UTC

api wrote: post #22

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

Outside of young, childless tech workers, this sudden remote work experiment is not going well for most people I know. This isn’t the controlled trial of remote work that these think pieces suggest. Instead, everyone is forcefully stuck at home without time to prepare. Parents are juggling childcare with getting work done, while fighting an uphill battle against IT systems that weren’t prepared for everyone going WFH…

I realized after I had kids that a huge amount of "new urbanist" thought is driven by the young and childless and does not incorporate the needs of people with children or of children themselves. This falls under the same category. Without child care or some place for the children to go, it's absolutely impossible to work from home. If only one parent works it can be done, but if both parents have to telework it's a…

> This falls under the same category. Without child care or some place for the children to go, it's absolutely impossible to work from home.

Without child care or some place for the children to go, it's absolutely impossible to work from the office either, so I'm not sure what this means.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#77

Post by unixhero » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 9:03 PM UTC

This is so behind the curve. We've been self isolating for weeks already.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#78

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

chatmasta wrote: post #72

aivisol wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that stroke me yesterday looking at my 13-year old is that children actually suffer more than adults. While we are allowed to take occasional walk out of our homes ( groceries, etc), they are totally locked up - no friends, no school socializing, everything is virtual only. If this lockdown lasts for any long period of time, it might backfire badly on them.

Children/teenagers are also losing a time of their life they will never get back. For example, if you're a junior in high school looking to get recruited to college for a spring sport, you're basically out of luck. This kind of extended hiatus from everyday life can alter entire life trajectories.

> For example, if you're a junior in high school looking to get recruited to college for a spring sport, you're basically out of luck.

Isn't that same for every junior in high school? Are recruiters going to be happy to miss out an entire year?

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#79

Post by CuriousCosmic » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

aivisol wrote: post #34

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

Outside of young, childless tech workers, this sudden remote work experiment is not going well for most people I know. This isn’t the controlled trial of remote work that these think pieces suggest. Instead, everyone is forcefully stuck at home without time to prepare. Parents are juggling childcare with getting work done, while fighting an uphill battle against IT systems that weren’t prepared for everyone going WFH…

One thing that stroke me yesterday looking at my 13-year old is that children actually suffer more than adults. While we are allowed to take occasional walk out of our homes ( groceries, etc), they are totally locked up - no friends, no school socializing, everything is virtual only. If this lockdown lasts for any long period of time, it might backfire badly on them.

Something to note is that depending on where you live, people can still go outside. They just need to stay away from people. If you live in a suburban or rural environment odds are there are at least walking paths nearby. Go on a walk, run, or bike ride. Nothing in those activities requires interacting with others as long as you keep a mind to keep your distance and they do wonders for keeping the cabin fever at bay.

Not meaning to rant, just something I wanted to get off my chest since people keep talking about being trapped indoors when practising social distancing (not quarantine. people under quarantine need to stay as isolated as possible).

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#80

Post by CuriousCosmic » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #70

CodeCube wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes ... $4000 US Dollars for a one bedroom is literal crazy talk. Obviously, people are willing and able to pay those prices right now because they have to live specifically there to get those specific jobs. But if they could work remote, they could live anywhere their heart desires ... closer to family, closer to friends, closer to nature, closer to a local music scene, closer to the beach ... whatever their heart d…

Even if the absolute numbers are lower, I would still expect to see a premium of closer to 60% for an additional bedroom.

At least on the east coast outside of actually being located in the hard urban part of the city, from what I've seen 1 and 2 bedroom apartments only end up being marginally different in price. For example, one of the places I was looking at had 1 bedroom apartments for around 1400-1500USD per month while their 2 bedroom apartments only increased in price to 1600-1800USD depending on whether you wanted a bit more square footage or 2 bath instead of 1 bath. Likewise 3 bedroom just notched up another 200USD and so on.