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Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

straitstimes.com

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Re: Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

#81

Post by Hamuko »

freetime2 wrote: post #62
williamscales wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read yesterday that Japan had administered something like 16,000 COVID-19 tests in total. So I think they're basically not testing and hoping that it goes away.

I would be interested to read if you could share the source for the above. It’s true that Japan only seems to be testing people with serious symptoms at the moment. But we would expect hospitalizations and deaths to be higher if the number were really that high.

Doesn't Japan already have a pretty high number of death for the supposed amount of cases? Sweden for example has 36 deaths for 2286 cases whereas Japan has 42 deaths for 1140 cases. And South Korea has 9037 cases and 120 deaths, so about three times as many deaths but nine times as many cases.

Re: Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

#82

Post by KwanEsq »

aikinai wrote: post #48
KwanEsq wrote: post #11

Off-topic, but is anyone aware of many English-language news publications respecting the switch to family given name ordering? The only one I know of is the Economist.

Just this week I saw a good article about this[0]. [0] https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/20/media/japan-abe-shinzo-name-i...

Thanks, that was interesting and illuminating.

Re: Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

#83

Post by spacehunt »

monkeywork wrote: post #69
taiwanboy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is nothing wrong with calling the virus ‘Chinese virus’ when a.) the virus came from China. b.) the Chinese government proactively hid the details of the coronavirus to the world until it couldn’t anymore (since it started infecting other countries https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/17/china-car... c.) actively trying to pin the origin of the virus on other countries like Italy https://www.…

There is something immensely wrong with it because unfortunately people don't see a difference between the Chinese government and the Chinese people. This is going to greenlight those who are looking for reasons to lash out with their hate and puts those who are or could be confused as Chinese in danger from these idiots. There is also a need to be above petty name calling. It is fine to take a scientific and fact ba…

> people don't see a difference between the Chinese government and the Chinese people

Which is entirely the Chinese government's doing. They have been pushing the narrative that they represent the entire ethnic Chinese race for a long time.

Unfortunately many ethnic Chinese people welcomed this narrative -- even though they are citizens of other countries -- because it profited them as China's economic power rose. The current crisis reminds them that they can't have it both ways.

Re: Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

#84

Post by monkeywork »

spacehunt wrote: post #83
monkeywork wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something immensely wrong with it because unfortunately people don't see a difference between the Chinese government and the Chinese people. This is going to greenlight those who are looking for reasons to lash out with their hate and puts those who are or could be confused as Chinese in danger from these idiots. There is also a need to be above petty name calling. It is fine to take a scientific and fact ba…

> people don't see a difference between the Chinese government and the Chinese people Which is entirely the Chinese government's doing. They have been pushing the narrative that they represent the entire ethnic Chinese race for a long time. Unfortunately many ethnic Chinese people welcomed this narrative -- even though they are citizens of other countries -- because it profited them as China's economic power rose. Th…

>Which is entirely the Chinese government's doing. They have been pushing the narrative that they represent they entire ethnic Chinese race for a long time.

That doesn't excuse you or deny the reality that doing something that insights hatred is wrong. Again we are talking about blaming (b/m)illions of people for the actions of their government.... shall we paint all Americans with an orange brush and assume the actions of their president accurately reflect them as well?

>The current crisis reminds them that they can't have it both ways.

The current crisis is a global crisis ... using it as an opportunity to direct hate to an ethnic group is not moral and is dangerous. If you can't see that you should really self reflect on what your motivations are on it and who it helps.

Re: Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

#85

Post by Legogris »

minitoar wrote: post #28
thieving_magpie wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's sad but what does "let Japan know that this is not their fault" even mean?

As a global community we should come to and express the (IMO) correct conclusion that Japan did an amazing (perhaps the best) job of containing this, and it was still the right thing for them to postpone the 2020 olympics.

The short answer is, we don't know. There just isn't data to tell.

That being said, not that much testing has been made. The culture doesn't promote not downplaying or hiding your symptoms. Past couple of weeks, people have been relaxing. Cherry trees are in full bloom and so are the park gatherings. At the airport there are fingerprint scanners at the passport control - no way to sanitize your hands until after luggage unless you brought hand sanitizer. I could go on.

Tokyo's governor just mentioned the possibility of a Europe/China style lockdown: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tokyo-...

Tokyo just picked up the rate significantly: https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/10900000/000612031.pdf

CDC just raised Japan's alert rate: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/warning/coronavirus-jap...

Internally, there are recommendations, and not much more. Bars and clubs are still going. Many offices are business as usual, apart from not demanding everyone in at 8:40 sharp to spread out commutes a bit more. Many of those expect to be able to return to that by April. (Just anecdata, my girlfriend happens to work at one such company)

Golden Week is coming up. For those who don't know, generally in Japan people only have around 10 holidays - but on the other hand there are a lot of holidays. It just so happens that in may several of those fall together and it's the one week every year where everyone goes traveling (there is also New Year's which is more focused on family).

I am not optimistic.

Re: Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

#86

Post by magduf »

jasonv wrote: post #59
BurningCycles wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very anectdotal, but the three Japanese persons I know have told me that people in Japan are generally negative towards holding an Olympics and think it's just a waste of resources.

This is a very common "populist" view when the Olympics are held locally... true here in the US when the Olympics were in LA and Atlanta.

In my opinion, it's rational (which surprises me that it would be "populist" since populist thinking is rarely rational).

The Olympics really are a terrible waste of effort and resources for the host nation, and the host nation rarely, if ever, gets a positive return on it. Mostly, it seems only to serve to increase the prestige of some head-of-state, nothing more. In reality, it costs an enormous amount of money to build facilities that are only used once and then go to waste. The world would be better off designating two separate, permanent Olympics facilities, one for summer and one for winter, and just reusing those every 4 years.

Re: Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

#87

Post by Symmetry »

GuB-42 wrote: post #25
School-Cotton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Masks also help you avoid getting the virus if you’re not infected. It’s a complete myth that they don’t; literally all research points in the same direction.

Yes, if we somehow manage to get a massive supply of masks, I expect all officials to do a 180 turn and ask everyone to wear them. The problem now is that we don't have enough, so we downplay their effectiveness, to limit panic buying and to make sure that people who need them the most get them. It is a perfectly understandable, though a little dishonest strategy. Also, we don't to give people a false sense of securi…

I don't know if that's true. Surgical masks are pretty good at stopping droplets but they only stop 80% of virus sized particles and that's really not good enough for most medical use cases. It's a lot easier to teach new doctors and nurses "surgical masks don't protect you" than go into details. I expect health officials are just repeating the received wisdom which is close enough to true in their circumstances rather than deliberately being deceptive.

People round off quantitative information to qualitative judgements all the time. Nate Silver still has people being angry at him for "Predicting Hillary would win" when he said at there was a 2/3 chance of that happening. It's such a pervasive phenomenon I don't see any reason to think it couldn't be happening here.

Re: Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

#88

Post by spacehunt »

monkeywork wrote: post #84
spacehunt wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people don't see a difference between the Chinese government and the Chinese people Which is entirely the Chinese government's doing. They have been pushing the narrative that they represent the entire ethnic Chinese race for a long time. Unfortunately many ethnic Chinese people welcomed this narrative -- even though they are citizens of other countries -- because it profited them as China's economic power rose. Th…

>Which is entirely the Chinese government's doing. They have been pushing the narrative that they represent they entire ethnic Chinese race for a long time. That doesn't excuse you or deny the reality that doing something that insights hatred is wrong. Again we are talking about blaming (b/m)illions of people for the actions of their government.... shall we paint all Americans with an orange brush and assume the acti…

I don't know, to me not allowing people to qualify the virus using the place of origin (as was the convention before) is an insult to those people -- you are assuming malice, that these people must be racists.

I'm saying this as an ethnic Chinese myself.

Re: Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

#89

Post by claudiawerner »

spacehunt wrote: post #88
monkeywork wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Which is entirely the Chinese government's doing. They have been pushing the narrative that they represent they entire ethnic Chinese race for a long time. That doesn't excuse you or deny the reality that doing something that insights hatred is wrong. Again we are talking about blaming (b/m)illions of people for the actions of their government.... shall we paint all Americans with an orange brush and assume the acti…

I don't know, to me not allowing people to qualify the virus using the place of origin (as was the convention before) is an insult to those people -- you are assuming malice, that these people must be racists. I'm saying this as an ethnic Chinese myself.

Nobody said that those who use the term "Chinese virus" are necessarily racists. That's beside the point; in my other reply to this subthread, I linked a StackExchange thread which has good responses to why "Chinese virus" should not be considered OK, even considering previous namings as "Spanish flu", including those from experts (such as the WHO). The influenza epidemic of 2009 started in the US. Nobody calls that "North American virus".

Re: Abe, IOC agree to delay Tokyo Olympics by one year

#90

Post by monkeywork »

spacehunt wrote: post #88
monkeywork wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Which is entirely the Chinese government's doing. They have been pushing the narrative that they represent they entire ethnic Chinese race for a long time. That doesn't excuse you or deny the reality that doing something that insights hatred is wrong. Again we are talking about blaming (b/m)illions of people for the actions of their government.... shall we paint all Americans with an orange brush and assume the acti…

I don't know, to me not allowing people to qualify the virus using the place of origin (as was the convention before) is an insult to those people -- you are assuming malice, that these people must be racists. I'm saying this as an ethnic Chinese myself.

I'm not assuming malice in you specifically - I'm observing malice and the results of action objectively in several others and saying it is serves very little benefit with relation to the risk it presents.

The virus has a name Covid 19. Naming it anything else does very little good (do you really think anyone doesn't know where it started) and potentially has a great harm.

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