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Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

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Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#31

Post by gdubs »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

Outside of young, childless tech workers, this sudden remote work experiment is not going well for most people I know. This isn’t the controlled trial of remote work that these think pieces suggest. Instead, everyone is forcefully stuck at home without time to prepare. Parents are juggling childcare with getting work done, while fighting an uphill battle against IT systems that weren’t prepared for everyone going WFH…

It’s also been a week.

Like you said, this is anything but a controlled experiment. People are trying to push through a lot of psychological stress right now. Families are suddenly responsible for homeschooling — 2 young kids and a toddler in our case. It’s a lot.

If people look back at this period and use it to judge the effective remote work is, that would be pretty ridiculous. (Of course, some people who are fundamentally against remote work will do just that.) If one worked remote during a hurricane, and pretended the hurricane wasn’t the dominant factor, it would also be ridiculous.

But it is time to be asking, how could we be better set up at home? What are the strengths and weaknesses of our tools? Does the current schooling model work in the 21st century? Or is it too fragile and dependent on an old societal structure? Should we be paying teachers a lot more than we are?

Conversely, we should be talking about the ‘wisdom’ of open offices. Hindsight is 20/20, but wouldn’t regular old offices with doors that close implement a fair amount of physical distancing?

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#32

Post by coldpie »

jrumbut wrote: post #25
formercoder wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. If anything business travel and in office time will increase - we’re gonna realize how great it is to be in the same room.

Yeah, I'm two weeks into this and badly miss my office. Edit: no children either, just easier to work with people in the same building sometimes.

Yep, me too. Early 30s and childless. I've never liked working from home, and now I'm forced to do it. It sucks. I like having someone looking over my shoulder (look what I'm spending time on right now!). I like having a bus to catch at 3:00 so my day ends right there. I like having a commute that separates work from home. I like having people to talk to and make jokes with. I like having separate work and home computers. For me, the benefits of WFH are...? I honestly can't think of any.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#33

Post by fncypants »

api wrote: post #22
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

Outside of young, childless tech workers, this sudden remote work experiment is not going well for most people I know. This isn’t the controlled trial of remote work that these think pieces suggest. Instead, everyone is forcefully stuck at home without time to prepare. Parents are juggling childcare with getting work done, while fighting an uphill battle against IT systems that weren’t prepared for everyone going WFH…

I realized after I had kids that a huge amount of "new urbanist" thought is driven by the young and childless and does not incorporate the needs of people with children or of children themselves. This falls under the same category. Without child care or some place for the children to go, it's absolutely impossible to work from home. If only one parent works it can be done, but if both parents have to telework it's a…

It seems that only once you have kids you realize how much of society that doesn't make sense to you is the way it is in order to accommodate the logistics of children and schooling.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#34

Post by aivisol »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

Outside of young, childless tech workers, this sudden remote work experiment is not going well for most people I know. This isn’t the controlled trial of remote work that these think pieces suggest. Instead, everyone is forcefully stuck at home without time to prepare. Parents are juggling childcare with getting work done, while fighting an uphill battle against IT systems that weren’t prepared for everyone going WFH…

One thing that stroke me yesterday looking at my 13-year old is that children actually suffer more than adults. While we are allowed to take occasional walk out of our homes ( groceries, etc), they are totally locked up - no friends, no school socializing, everything is virtual only. If this lockdown lasts for any long period of time, it might backfire badly on them.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#35

Post by imtringued »

checker659 wrote: post #6
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

Outside of young, childless tech workers, this sudden remote work experiment is not going well for most people I know. This isn’t the controlled trial of remote work that these think pieces suggest. Instead, everyone is forcefully stuck at home without time to prepare. Parents are juggling childcare with getting work done, while fighting an uphill battle against IT systems that weren’t prepared for everyone going WFH…

Yeah, I think this experiment is going to backfire. People are going to hate WFH/Remote work coming out of this it seems.

That doesn't matter since WFH isn't popular right now. If 0.01% of people work remotely and then suddenly everyone ends up doing WFH then it is unlikely that more than 99.99% of people are going to hate WFH. So lets be pessimistic and say 99% of people end up hating WFH and only 1% like it. That's still a 100 fold increase in people who will do WFH.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#36

Post by haq1q »

bitwize wrote: post #18

What self-isolating future? In the USA, as soon as coronavirus blows over the boss will say: "Okay, back to work. I need you in the office during core business hours." And hour+ long commutes will come back with a vengeance. It's part of American work culture. It's a form of virtue signalling. By showing up at the office every workday, early in the morning, you are indicating your commitment to the company and to del…

Indeed, many people just don't have that much to offer apart from showing up. Unfortunately, this includes those who put themselves between the money and the productive part of the population. So nothing will change.

"Showing up is 70% of everything." [Woody Allen]

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#38

Post by imtringued »

fncypants wrote: post #33
api wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realized after I had kids that a huge amount of "new urbanist" thought is driven by the young and childless and does not incorporate the needs of people with children or of children themselves. This falls under the same category. Without child care or some place for the children to go, it's absolutely impossible to work from home. If only one parent works it can be done, but if both parents have to telework it's a…

It seems that only once you have kids you realize how much of society that doesn't make sense to you is the way it is in order to accommodate the logistics of children and schooling.

I don't understand this at all. As someone who doesn't have children it's the extreme opposite to me. Modern society is actively hostile to having children.

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#39

Post by 0x202020 »

MivLives wrote: post #27
RHSeeger wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it results in 1. Workers (that previously hadn't been remote) realizing that it has good parts and bad parts, that paying an extra 10%+ in rent/mortgage in order to get a proper home office can be the cost of working from home (and then the costs of utilities for a now non-empty home). That doesn't mean it's bad, just that it has pluses and minuses. 2. Companies realizing that people working from home _does_ have…

Your first point is the part I'd like most to change with this. I live in an apartment with three other people. It's fine when we're all coming in and out and spend all day at work. But now that 3/4 of us are at home, and confined to our rooms it's getting annoying. There's no good public space, and none of us share any interests. I live and work in a single room, and I wish so much I could move to somewhere with mor…

I saw this in a company I worked at previously. When I joined they had just moved their headquarters from the West Coast to the Midwest and gave employees the option to WFH or freedom to come into office still at new location. Within a year it was a pretty even split on A) staying where they were and working remote B) moving to be in the suburbs around the new location C) moving further out from the city but staying on the West Coast D) leaving the company

Re: Our Self-Isolating Future: How working from home could reshape society

#40

Post by nemo44x »

Working from home isn’t about just moving people from an office to home. It’s a culture the e tire company has to adopt for it to be effective. The way people communicate, meet, schedule, etc. You need to prioritize asynchronous communication, you need managers that don’t feel a need to babysit adults, you need to record many things, you need software that makes for seamless collaboration.

You need a company policy that gives at least a $1k budget for home office supplies like chairs and desks.

And you do need some offices for people to congregate to and for field operations if you have them. And you need policy to allow for personal office rental for those that don’t live within a commute to an office and can’t work at their home.

And employees need to get used to a more independent way of working. That they can set their own hours, etc.

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