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Don’t bail out the cruise industry

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Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#111

Post by ses1984 »

christophilus wrote: post #99
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're likely not going to go bust though; they have a fuckton of money, at worst the ships are going to be docked for a while until this blows over. They won't make money, but they're not going to go bust. I think this is a major problem with a lot of businesses; they consider time not spent earning money as loss, instead of just a period with less income. And I think it's the responsibility of ALL businesses to ke…

I’ve looked at their finances. A few very well may go bust. It’s incredible how many publicly traded companies are living paycheck to paycheck. I don’t like the idea of bailing out debt-laden, mismanaged companies. Let them go into bankruptcy and let a more competent group of people buy them and run them. This is doubly true for Boeing. Get those monkeys out of the executive positions.

The ships aren't going to disappear, someone else will buy them and operate them.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#112

Post by kolleykibber »

edejong wrote: post #14

The cruise industry is one of the most polluting and damaging industries in the world. It ruins cities worldwide. Their ships are petri-dishes for disease, spreading it directly into our vital cities. They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. They are ruining local sea life and are spreading non-native species. Their exhaust fumes are extremely detrimental to local air quality in cities. The swarms of tourists are…

To list a few positives.

Europe maybe not, but places like Honduras would be worse off without them.

The industry and shipyards are advancing technology in ways that other industries do not. New ships use LNG, batteries and renewables. A carbon neutral cruise ship is not too far away.

The intensive childcare offered allows parents who cannot otherwise get such services to relax.

Pixar's Wall-e was prescient in that most people would choose to live this way.

The demand for cruises is not going to go away.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#113

Post by pmiller2 »

edejong wrote: post #14

The cruise industry is one of the most polluting and damaging industries in the world. It ruins cities worldwide. Their ships are petri-dishes for disease, spreading it directly into our vital cities. They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. They are ruining local sea life and are spreading non-native species. Their exhaust fumes are extremely detrimental to local air quality in cities. The swarms of tourists are…

Just to quantify your first sentence, one single cruise ship emits the same amount of pollution as 1 million cars [0]. And, one cruise line emits more pollution every year than ALL the cars in Europe [1]. They should not just be allowed to go bust; they should be forced out of business.

---

[0]: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday...

[1]: https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/luxury-cruise-gia...

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#114

Post by bradleyjg »

kolleykibber wrote: post #112
edejong wrote: post #14

The cruise industry is one of the most polluting and damaging industries in the world. It ruins cities worldwide. Their ships are petri-dishes for disease, spreading it directly into our vital cities. They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. They are ruining local sea life and are spreading non-native species. Their exhaust fumes are extremely detrimental to local air quality in cities. The swarms of tourists are…

To list a few positives. Europe maybe not, but places like Honduras would be worse off without them. The industry and shipyards are advancing technology in ways that other industries do not. New ships use LNG, batteries and renewables. A carbon neutral cruise ship is not too far away. The intensive childcare offered allows parents who cannot otherwise get such services to relax. Pixar's Wall-e was prescient in that m…

> The demand for cruises is not going to go away.

In that case why the need for a bailout? If they are viable businesses either as is or after reorganization in bankruptcy, then what’s the issue that needs solving by the government? That the very rich owners and lenders lost money and wish they hadn’t?

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#115

Post by bradleyjg »

usrusr wrote: post #73
netrus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The broader economy would suffer badly if they were to fail Why? The planes are not going anywhere. If airlines fail, someone will be able to buy them at a discount. They will need to hire pilots and cabin crews. Shareholders in airlines will be hit - as it should be.

That's even more true with cruise ships. That industry will be effectively bailed out one way or the other, the other is banks eating the losses after bankruptcy and new companies starting out with lower debt after taking over the assets at firesale prices. But that only strengthens the point of the article: the optics of an actual bailout would be so much worse and the outcome would only really differ for shareholde…

It’s not even banks, they don’t lend at those scales, it’s bondholders. Let them take their lumps. If investors wanted government guarantees they could have bought sovereign debt instead.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#116

Post by dsfyu404ed »

jacobush wrote: post #98
ornornor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also forget to mention the magic pipes that let ships dump water polluted with oil directly into the sea so they don’t have to pay at ports for proper disposal. Outlaw ocean is an eye opening book (and a great read) about how lawless the sea is, how slavery is still very very real out there, and how it’s virtually impossible to keep eating fish once you know what’s going on (both in terms of human trafficking and…

I find it strange that ships mix water runoff, antifreeze, hydraulic oil, engine oil seepage etc etc into a huge big mixed bilge tank and then try to separate it with an oil separator. Strange.

It's more like the bilge is a central place where any fluid that leaks out of whatever system normally handles it winds up. On small vessels you just have a straight bilge pump that dumps out the side. At cruise ship scale you can afford to stick an oil/water separator filter on it.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#117

Post by Mountain_Skies »

Bnshsysjab wrote: post #32
edejong wrote: post #14

The cruise industry is one of the most polluting and damaging industries in the world. It ruins cities worldwide. Their ships are petri-dishes for disease, spreading it directly into our vital cities. They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. They are ruining local sea life and are spreading non-native species. Their exhaust fumes are extremely detrimental to local air quality in cities. The swarms of tourists are…

I’ve always been curious about that, why do cruise ships always get hit with gastro? I rarely hear about it but when I do it’s on a cruise ship.

Given how often cruise ships end up spreading infections between passengers, it's odd how popular they are with the elderly. Not only are they increasing their odds of catching something, the medical facilities on the ship and many of the ports of call are inferior to what's available in most average sized cities back home.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#118

Post by simonh »

edejong wrote: post #14

The cruise industry is one of the most polluting and damaging industries in the world. It ruins cities worldwide. Their ships are petri-dishes for disease, spreading it directly into our vital cities. They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. They are ruining local sea life and are spreading non-native species. Their exhaust fumes are extremely detrimental to local air quality in cities. The swarms of tourists are…

I think you're being a bit naive. All the ships will still exist. All that will happen is that investors will snap up the ships and 'brands' at bargain prices, set up new cruise companies and the ships will be back in business in a matter of a few months, probably with the same crews and the same company names. The only thing that will change is the ownership.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#119

Post by wideasleep1 »

pippy wrote: post #9

The article missed another point: they're competing with US based tourism. Every person who chose to go on a cruise didn't visit a US city and spend money there.

On the Caribbean and Mexico cruises we've taken, we spent a few days before and after in the US ports Fort Lauderdale and San Diego, so it is common for both same-day flyers and short term stay visitors to embark.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#120

Post by sokoloff »

amelius wrote: post #102
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're likely not going to go bust though; they have a fuckton of money, at worst the ships are going to be docked for a while until this blows over. They won't make money, but they're not going to go bust. I think this is a major problem with a lot of businesses; they consider time not spent earning money as loss, instead of just a period with less income. And I think it's the responsibility of ALL businesses to ke…

> I think this is a major problem with a lot of businesses; they consider time not spent earning money as loss, instead of just a period with less income. It depends if you still have expenses, like e.g. rent.

Or employees.
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