Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don’t bail out the cruise industry

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 205 posts

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#41

Post by bradleyjg »

jjeaff wrote: post #13
unwind wrote: post #3

I'm not from the US, but I don't even understand the basic premise. If these companies avoid paying taxes by not being registered/incorporated in the US, how could they possibly be eligible for help from the US government? That just seems like a contradiction, like a huge case of having your cake and eating it.

Carnival Cruises is headquartered in Miami. They register their ships in other countries for various reasons. One of which is taxes. But the company itself is based in the US.

The pay no taxes.

Carnival Corp and Norwegian both posted negative income tax expenses — that is, they received more in refunds or deductions than they paid or set aside for taxes — with Carnival reporting an income tax expense of $71 million and Norwegian reporting an $18.9 million tax benefit.

They don’t contribute to the public fisc in good times, they should have no call on it when times are tough.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#42

Post by BrentOzar »

Bnshsysjab wrote: post #32
edejong wrote: post #14

The cruise industry is one of the most polluting and damaging industries in the world. It ruins cities worldwide. Their ships are petri-dishes for disease, spreading it directly into our vital cities. They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. They are ruining local sea life and are spreading non-native species. Their exhaust fumes are extremely detrimental to local air quality in cities. The swarms of tourists are…

I’ve always been curious about that, why do cruise ships always get hit with gastro? I rarely hear about it but when I do it’s on a cruise ship.

> why do cruise ships always get hit with gastro?

Everybody uses the same touch points, all day long. Most get their food from the same buffet line, touch the same food, the same drink dispensers, sit down at the same tables (which aren't cleaned often enough), sit on the same deck chairs at the pool, hold on to the same railings on the stairways (especially since the boat is moving), etc., etc.

They're all packed into the same space, making the same movements every day (room, to the stairs/elevator, to the buffet, to the stairs/elevator again, to the pool, to the stairs/elevator, etc.) Any virus that makes it to any common touch point is going to infect everybody in a matter of hours.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#43

Post by markdown »

busterarm wrote: post #17
jjeaff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carnival Cruises is headquartered in Miami. They register their ships in other countries for various reasons. One of which is taxes. But the company itself is based in the US.

Indeed, there's a bustling maritime law industry in the state of Florida that would die if the cruise industry were to fail or leave.

Are you arguing that we should bail out the cruise industry to save the lawyers?

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#44

Post by CaptainZapp »

ummwhat wrote: post #24

Better idea. They want a bailout? Sure. Turn all your ships to hospital ships for the next year. You won't miss them anyway. One of these ships is basically a 10 floor high city block that can sustain itself off grid for over two weeks. Surely we have a good use for that.

Where do you take the doctors, nurses and paramdics to staff those ships? There is already a massive shortage in competent medical personal.

Add to this that cruise ships are notoriously bad in containing viruses. Before we had this massive mess there were regular noro virus outbreaks on cruise ships.

ASo no, I don't think that's a good idea.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#45

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Reason077 wrote: post #8
battery_cowboy wrote: post #2

Fuck em, they flag in other countries so they don't pay taxes, but also because they can treat employees like slaves, pollute using bunker fuel, and generally fuck over the world. Fuck em.

Airlines also pollute and dodge taxes. But love them or hate them, it's hard to argue that airlines don't play a critical role. The broader economy would suffer badly if they were to fail. Cruise ships, however, do not. They are purely recreational and the economy would not fall apart if they were to go. They also share some of the blame for spreading Covid-19 in the first place!

At least you could argue [citation needed] that the airlines play a bigger role in the US economy than cruise ships. I mean their intent is to ferry people (and their money) away from the US, both in the fare (which goes to tax havens and rich people's pockets) and the money people spend in foreign tourist areas.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#46

Post by sytelus »

busterarm wrote: post #6

The cruise ships send millions of dollars of US tourists' money every year to countries in the US sphere of influence that they would otherwise never fly and visit. It's not a bailout for the cruise industry. It's a bailout for nearly every island nation in this hemisphere. We keep the tourism money flowing and they'll keep flowing exported raw materials and food.

The article is also missing the point that the majority of cruise ship consumers are from the US. A lot of these folks live for going on a cruise. I've met people who have been on cruise every single year since over a decade and the people who work hard to save money to go on cruise. It's easy to say all these other people shouldn't need X when you don't need X. My only objection against cruise company is massive pollution they do. Government should definitely make fixing this a pre-condition of any bailout.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#47

Post by Cthulhu_ »

edejong wrote: post #14

The cruise industry is one of the most polluting and damaging industries in the world. It ruins cities worldwide. Their ships are petri-dishes for disease, spreading it directly into our vital cities. They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. They are ruining local sea life and are spreading non-native species. Their exhaust fumes are extremely detrimental to local air quality in cities. The swarms of tourists are…

They're likely not going to go bust though; they have a fuckton of money, at worst the ships are going to be docked for a while until this blows over.

They won't make money, but they're not going to go bust.

I think this is a major problem with a lot of businesses; they consider time not spent earning money as loss, instead of just a period with less income. And I think it's the responsibility of ALL businesses to keep a savings account so they can weather economic downturns for a few months (at least 6), while paying their staff in full.

I mean it's only been a few months and they're already asking for handouts? Besides, whatever happened to pulling yourself up by the bootstraps and how communism and the state is evil?

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#48

Post by iguy »

ummwhat wrote: post #24

Better idea. They want a bailout? Sure. Turn all your ships to hospital ships for the next year. You won't miss them anyway. One of these ships is basically a 10 floor high city block that can sustain itself off grid for over two weeks. Surely we have a good use for that.

This didn't go so well with the Diamond Princess. Cruise ships seem like terrible sanitary environments at the best of times. Motels on the other hand are great, they have separate rooms each with its own windows & AC, and really simple plumbing.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#50

Post by Cthulhu_ »

unwind wrote: post #3

I'm not from the US, but I don't even understand the basic premise. If these companies avoid paying taxes by not being registered/incorporated in the US, how could they possibly be eligible for help from the US government? That just seems like a contradiction, like a huge case of having your cake and eating it.

They'll likely get it because they can pay politicians to vote in favor, or said politicians own a stake in those companies - probably indirectly to avoid an apparent conflict of interest, but who will find out?

Actually they did, see Panama Papers. So many higher-ups turned out to have a lot of money stashed away abroad.

Politicians are corrupt. I mean take Trump; while he 'officially' renounced control / ownership of his properties (I think?), he's still pumping hundreds of (tax payer) millions into his own resorts by going golfing every week in his own resorts. Said taxpayers are the common folk as well, not the actual resort itself.

Post reply on HN