It is a 30 patients test and almost everybody’s fever was gone right after enrollment. Even the swab test results turned negative in 2-4 days. Why is medicine ever needed for such group of patients?
First hydroxychloroquine randomized controlled trial: results disappointing
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Re: First hydroxychloroquine randomized controlled trial: results disappointing
#22Wait. I thought that hydroxychloroquine was hypothesized to protect against wet lung, as an anti-inflammatory, and not as an antiviral. Did I just make that up?
No, HCQ is the Antiviral. Anti-inflammatories are also in the plan, but not Iboprofen.
Re: First hydroxychloroquine randomized controlled trial: results disappointing
#23I am sorry, but isn't the mechanism of action that hydroxychloroquine is simply a zinc ionophore, i.e. you need enough free zinc in the blood for this to work? I read doctors suggesting using hydroxychloroquine along with 50mg of ionic zinc.
CQ (and HCQ, etc) have multiple potential mechanisms of action. I don't believe we know how it works in this particular case yet, or if it even works at all. It is indeed a zinc ionophore, [1] and those are known to impair the replication of a number of RNA viruses. [2] However, there are a number of other mechanisms at play here as well. [3]
> Both CQ and HCQ are weak bases that are known to elevate the pH of acidic intracellular organelles, such as endosomes/lysosomes, essential for membrane fusion5. In addition, CQ could inhibit SARS-CoV entry through changing the glycosylation of ACE2 receptor and spike protein6. Time-of-addition experiment confirmed that HCQ effectively inhibited the entry step, as well as the post-entry stages of SARS-CoV-2, which was also found upon CQ treatment (Supplementary Fig. S2).
[1] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
[2] https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/j...
Re: First hydroxychloroquine randomized controlled trial: results disappointing
#24I am sorry, but isn't the mechanism of action that hydroxychloroquine is simply a zinc ionophore, i.e. you need enough free zinc in the blood for this to work? I read doctors suggesting using hydroxychloroquine along with 50mg of ionic zinc.
Like Reelin said, it's effectiveness may be related to it's ability to modulate immune activity by affecting pH.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27927040
Course, that'll only work if the symptoms are being caused by an overactive immune system and it's able to mediate that immune response in time.
Re: First hydroxychloroquine randomized controlled trial: results disappointing
#25For people that didn't read: it's "disappointing" because both the control and study groups largely tested negative (93% and 87% respectively). That 87% figure sounds worse than the control but it actually is better than in the French study.
What happened in essence is that almost all cases were mild so the patients almost all got better after a while, with or without medication. This doesn't mean HCQ is ineffective, only that its efficacy couldn't be measured in this instance. And I wouldn't call a study where almost everyone gets better at the end "disappointing".
Re: First hydroxychloroquine randomized controlled trial: results disappointing
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
scientists have increasingly been doing this during covid by publishing on biorxiv and then discussing on other channels (twitter etc) for ex, this paper [0] by UCSF analyzing 26 of the 29 viral proteins expressed by the virus was posted on biorxiv and publicized further via twitter [1]. they identified 69 FDA approved drugs that target these proteins, giving the medical and scientific community a massive head start…
Yeah, I'm following a bunch of scientists on Twitter and have been watching from the sidelines with awe and admiration. The contrast to the seeming hordes of dumbfucks could hardly be more remarkable; sometimes it's hard to keep in mind the same platform is host to both sets of people.
Would you mind linking a couple here that are worth a follow?
Re: First hydroxychloroquine randomized controlled trial: results disappointing
#27I am sorry, but isn't the mechanism of action that hydroxychloroquine is simply a zinc ionophore, i.e. you need enough free zinc in the blood for this to work? I read doctors suggesting using hydroxychloroquine along with 50mg of ionic zinc.
Don't believe everything you watch on youtube.
Re: First hydroxychloroquine randomized controlled trial: results disappointing
#28For people that didn't read: it's "disappointing" because both the control and study groups largely tested negative (93% and 87% respectively). That 87% figure sounds worse than the control but it actually is better than in the French study. What happened in essence is that almost all cases were mild so the patients almost all got better after a while, with or without medication. This doesn't mean HCQ is ineffective,…
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Re: First hydroxychloroquine randomized controlled trial: results disappointing
#29I am sorry, but isn't the mechanism of action that hydroxychloroquine is simply a zinc ionophore, i.e. you need enough free zinc in the blood for this to work? I read doctors suggesting using hydroxychloroquine along with 50mg of ionic zinc.
Like Reelin said, it's effectiveness may be related to it's ability to modulate immune activity by affecting pH. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27927040 Course, that'll only work if the symptoms are being caused by an overactive immune system and it's able to mediate that immune response in time.
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Re: First hydroxychloroquine randomized controlled trial: results disappointing
#30This is evidence; it isn't great but it also isn't conclusive. We'll need to wait longer for something a little more decisive. A twitter link is also unhelpful because we only get a blurry abstract to go off.
The happy dream is maybe hydroxychloroquine has prophylactic tendencies since it is something people can take long term to be at a substantially lower risk vs catching COVID. The abstract doesn't really show much either way on that front.
Spitballing as an amateur, I suspect once someone has actual symptoms or is verging on a serious case it is too late to help - what is a drug supposed to do, regrow a busted lung? It comes to a point where the virus isn't what is killing you, it is the damage the virus did while breeding and/or the immune system overreacting fighting back and going haywire. Antivirals should help but aren't expected to be magic for either of those things.