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Re: undefined

#361

Post by gus_massa »

et2o wrote: post #295
pbreit wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely evidence of effectiveness against COVID-19 in humans from China, South Korea & France.

Please let me and the CDC know of these well-conducted trials of chloroquine for COVID. I take it you are not familiar with epidemiology, clinical evaluation of drug efficacy, or medical statistics. That’s fine! No one is saying you need to be. But you shouldn’t be extremely confident of your conclusions when experts are telling you that you’re wrong. The French chloroquine+azithromycin trial was terrible and no one…

I agree. Nitpicking: I think only 1 person in the treatment group died. It is not clear that the 3 that were transferred to the ICU finally died. (And 1 just left the hospital and 1 had too much nausea with the drugs, I hope that at least they are fine.)

Re: undefined

#362

Post by senectus1 »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #124

The article doesn't have absolutely any details. 1) What was the dose they took? 2) Where did they get it? 3) Was it medical-grade? 4) Did he die from it or just after taking it. Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy is in the title. 5) Is this man even real or is it an article designed to scare people against self medication or as a political hit piece? Chloroquine is a quite common antimalarial drug, and this article j…

Ironic isn't it, that in the information age we all live in, there is precious little reliable and precise information.

Fake news, Hoax cures, Shame healers and a world leader whose willing to contribute to the mess.

Re: undefined

#363

Post by cheese4242 »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #255

I did not know this many people in HN were functionally illiterate. The article does NOT say they drank aquarium cleaner. Learn to read, people! A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. That’s like saying “My neighbor had a banana, a common ingredient in certain brands of monkey f…

Before insulting others, did you consider people might have checked sources other than the article?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/man-dies-wife-in-critical-...

The man’s wife told NBC News she’d watched press briefings where Trump talked about the potential benefits of chloroquine — and she recalled the name from the treatment she used on her koi fish.

“I saw it sitting on the back shelf and thought, ‘Hey, isn’t that the stuff they’re talking about on TV?,’” she told the outlet on the condition of anonymity.

The couple mixed a small amount of their fish treatment with a liquid and drank it as a way to prevent the coronavirus, she said.

Re: undefined

#364

Post by AstralStorm »

Alex3917 wrote: post #307
HarryHirsch wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got that wrong. Nitric oxide is a vasodilator, it relaxes smooth muscles in the blood vessels and lungs to increase blood and air flow. It has nothing to do with fighting coronavirus or any other kind of virus, it's supportive treatment so that the patient doesn't suffocate.

> It has nothing to do with fighting coronavirus or any other kind of virus, it's supportive treatment so that the patient doesn't suffocate. "Nitric Oxide Inhibits the Replication Cycle of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus" https://jvi.asm.org/content/79/3/1966 ...

Nitric oxide ion in cell is not the same as nitrous oxide gas, typically used for sedation, not taking NO itself.

Enhancing NO signaling in cells is hard. The best initial bet there would be using certain class of beta-blockers. (Ones typically used for black patients.) But please do not take unproven drugs with known side effects.

The paper is talking about S-nitroso-N-acetylpenicillamine in vitro. This compound is not something anyone wants to actually take.

Re: undefined

#365

Post by cheese4242 »

npmaile wrote: post #35
CapriciousCptl wrote: post #23

Apparently the man and his wife ingested aquarium grade chloroquine. http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate

It says that it is commonly used in aquariums. I made the same mistake in my comment below.

It was indeed aquarium cleaner they ingested: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/man-dies-wife-in-critical-...

Re: undefined

#366

Post by cheese4242 »

makomk wrote: post #29
nostromo wrote: post #10

Chloroquine is safe when administered by a doctor. It's also easy to overdose if you don't know what you're doing. I'd hate to see people spread information about how dangerous Chloroquine is when it may be very useful treatment during this pandemic.

From the page linked in the article: "A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks.". Did he literally just consume fish tank cleaner? That seems like a really easy way to mess up dosing.

Yes, they did consume fish tank cleaner: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/man-dies-wife-in-critical-...

Re: undefined

#367

Post by cheese4242 »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #273
cheese4242 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The man who died drank aquarium cleaner. It is a huge stretch to blame that on Trump.

He didn’t. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22670152

Actually, he did: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/man-dies-wife-in-critical-...

Re: undefined

#368

Post by AstralStorm »

marzell wrote: post #297
redis_mlc wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if that's relevant. Once a drug is approved by the FDA for one disease, it can be used off-label for other purposes.

Iodine is approved for treating exposure to radiation. That doesn't mean it's OK to start drinking from a bottle of industrial-use iodine that isn't made for human consumption.

Likely much safer than taking aquarium cleaner, presuming correct dosage. These things tend to be chemically pure.

Re: undefined

#369

Post by et2o »

gus_massa wrote: post #361
et2o wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please let me and the CDC know of these well-conducted trials of chloroquine for COVID. I take it you are not familiar with epidemiology, clinical evaluation of drug efficacy, or medical statistics. That’s fine! No one is saying you need to be. But you shouldn’t be extremely confident of your conclusions when experts are telling you that you’re wrong. The French chloroquine+azithromycin trial was terrible and no one…

I agree. Nitpicking: I think only 1 person in the treatment group died. It is not clear that the 3 that were transferred to the ICU finally died. (And 1 just left the hospital and 1 had too much nausea with the drugs, I hope that at least they are fine.)

You are exactly right. I was remembering wrong.

Re: undefined

#370

Post by AstralStorm »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #329
Alex3917 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> neither do garlic and beetroot have anything to do with nitric oxide. "Potent activation of nitric oxide synthase by garlic: a basis for its therapeutic applications." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7555034 ...

Validated at least by reference, which he has given. Upvoted. We need more than this such as references to it or disclaimers for it, niether of which I can find. That is not to detract from the existence of the paper which he referenced. Whether nitric oxide has much to do with health is anothre question. I believe one of the reasons viagra works is due to nitric oxide, so perhaps it's we should be viagring instead.

Mind you the important part is where it's enhanced, and by how much.

And we're taking purified alicin at nearly toxic doses. In vitro. Yes, garlic can kill. And it was described to be active in vascular tissue not lungs.

Now Viagra is an interesting bet, but it also does not reach lungs or non-vascular cells.

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