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Re: undefined

#261

Post by tathougies » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 11:43 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #243

jdminhbg wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How are these people getting their hands on prescription drugs? The people in this story didn't get their hands on prescription drugs, they found an aquarium chemical with a similar name.

Are you arguing that the chloroquine they took, as chloroquine phosphate, is different from the chloroquine that's used to treat malaria? That's more than "a similar name". It's the same name. From what I've read, both chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are used to treat inflammation. So is it chloroquine vs hydroxychloroquine that you're referring to?

I would also suppose that aquarium grade chloroquine doesn't go through the same dosage assurance process. This is why it's dangerous to dose yourself using chemicals that are pharmacologic. Unless you're taking medication designed and verified to be used by humans at the given dose, you don't actually know if the concentration written on the box is actually what you're taking. These aquarium chemicals are likely unregulated or regulated much more loosely, so that the margin of error may easily kill a person, but not a fish.-

They may also contain non-active ingredients that are not harmful to fish but kill humans. Who knows?

In other words, don't take aquarium chemicals and think they're medication.

Re: undefined

#262

Post by refurb » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 11:43 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #25

A relevant data point. I don't think this is a good way to share public health information. @realdonaldtrump 7:13 AM - 21 Mar 2020 HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You! Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents)..... ....be put…

Seems completely reasonable to me.

He says "have a real chance". He's not promising they work and stating that he and the FDA are doing everything they can to find treatments.

Re: undefined

#263

Post by pbreit » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 11:43 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #94

blhack wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. There has been studies and papers being written and released for MONTHS from all over the world. We’ve known about chloroquine since January. This INSISTENCE people keep having on politicizing this is infuriating and it’s going to get people killed. Stop doing this. Now is not the time for political point gathering.

I don't see how this is political or harmful. It's a valid criticism of the president based purely on his own actions and their obvious consequences with no mention of party.

The main reason chloroquine is getting criticism is because Trump mentioned. This is utterly insane.

Re: undefined

#264

Post by jdminhbg » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 11:43 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #243

jdminhbg wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How are these people getting their hands on prescription drugs? The people in this story didn't get their hands on prescription drugs, they found an aquarium chemical with a similar name.

Are you arguing that the chloroquine they took, as chloroquine phosphate, is different from the chloroquine that's used to treat malaria? That's more than "a similar name". It's the same name. From what I've read, both chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are used to treat inflammation. So is it chloroquine vs hydroxychloroquine that you're referring to?

I'm not qualified to comment on what differences exist between chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, I'm pointing out that aquarium cleaner tablets are not medicine. Even if the names are the same, you have no idea what a tablet like that is cut with.

Re: undefined

#265

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #217

hnburnsy wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't take the drug, they took an aquarium cleaner... http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate >A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. Within thirty minutes of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects requiring admittance to a nearby Banner Health…

Apparently chloroquine phosphate is the right drug and it's a synonym for chloroquine the drug. https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8633/chloroquine-oral/det... Also all the wikipedia references are about chloroquine phosphate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroquine#References Looks like they did take the right drug, but OD'd or something.

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#266

Post by dmix » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #217

hnburnsy wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't take the drug, they took an aquarium cleaner... http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate >A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. Within thirty minutes of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects requiring admittance to a nearby Banner Health…

Apparently chloroquine phosphate is the right drug and it's a synonym for chloroquine the drug. https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8633/chloroquine-oral/det... Also all the wikipedia references are about chloroquine phosphate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroquine#References Looks like they did take the right drug, but OD'd or something.

To be more accurate the French study was for hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) not just chloroquine phosphate which this couple apparently took...

Re: undefined

#267

Post by refurb » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #166

raarts wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want to: offend, be misinterpreted or misunderstood, never say a word. The world is full of dumb, mean and easily offended people to which "words matter".

What's your point here?

People will do stupid things no matter what you say.

Re: undefined

#268

Post by tathougies » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #139

wl wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really relevant. A physician can lawfully prescribe it today for COVID-19 despite not being FDA approved for that indication because it's approved for other indications. This is called off-label use. What FDA approval for treating COVID-19 would mean is that the drug could be marketed for such use. In a pandemic, I don't think that's a major consideration.

It absolutely is relevant. A layperson will hear "chloroquine works on Covid-19. The FDA's approved it. The President himself said so."

Luckily a lay person cannot get medical grade chloroquine. They can purchase a chemical to use in aquariums, but that is not medication. Those chemicals are not regulated, and may contain all sorts of other compounds that could kill humans, or have an incorrect amount of chloroquine.

Sorry, no matter what the president says, self-medicating is nuts.

Re: undefined

#269

Post by pbreit » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #44

baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

It's been tested for years (decades? it's generic) as an anti-malaria drug. Any drug can be overdosed.

90 years. By millions of people. Also for arthritis and Lupus.

Re: undefined

#270

Post by mattkrause » Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 11:45 PM UTC

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #217

hnburnsy wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't take the drug, they took an aquarium cleaner... http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate >A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. Within thirty minutes of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects requiring admittance to a nearby Banner Health…

Apparently chloroquine phosphate is the right drug and it's a synonym for chloroquine the drug. https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8633/chloroquine-oral/det... Also all the wikipedia references are about chloroquine phosphate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroquine#References Looks like they did take the right drug, but OD'd or something.

It's a salt rather than a synonym.

Drugs often come as a salt made from some active ingredient (here, chloroquine) and a counterion (phosphate). This often makes the active ingredient more soluble than the charged active ingredient alone.