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Re: undefined

#161

Post by ryanmarsh »

ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #67
tomp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been tested for years (decades? it's generic) as an anti-malaria drug. Any drug can be overdosed.

That's an oversimplification. The amount for an overdose is only around 3X a regular dose (2g vs 600mg) In contrast, most drugs for which you overdose need to be at much higher dosage multiples compared to the prescribed dose.

most drugs for which you overdose need to be at much higher dosage multiples compared to the prescribed dose

Perhaps for over the counter medication. This statement is false when we consider drugs requiring a prescription especially those used mainly in acute care or hospital situation. There are all sorts of medications in that class for which a double dose will straight up kill you.

In discussing such situations we often use terms like "patient safety" and "medical malpractice".

The arguments for against this drug seem center around the person recommending it, not its actual efficacy.

Re: undefined

#162

Post by gwright »

jorblumesea wrote: post #41
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

Just one in a long line of completely inappropriate and norm breaking things he's done as President. Releasing classified info, false claims on Hurricane Dorian, fighting with his intelligence agencies, vaccine hoaxes, suppressing the press. Just go down the list. Possibly the least presidential president we've had in awhile.

> Releasing classified info

The President can make that decision, it is part of his powers as President. He isn't prohibited from doing that. Perhaps you don't think something in particular should have been released. If so make that case, but just complaining about this in general is illogical.

> fighting with his intelligence agencies

You mean the intelligence agencies that have worked very hard to delegitimize his presidency, mislead the FISA court and so on? Those agencies have a lot to answer for and shouldn't be treated as infallible.

> suppressing the press

Really? The press seems quite free to say whatever they want under Trump. It just seems silly to say that Trump is limiting the press.

Re: undefined

#163

Post by rbanffy »

raarts wrote: post #119
glitcher wrote: post #7

Yet another example of "words matter", and the potential consequences when leaders do not use careful consideration in their word choices.

If you don't want to: offend, be misinterpreted or misunderstood, never say a word. The world is full of dumb, mean and easily offended people to which "words matter".

In this case, Trump's endorsement of a drug clearly mattered.

Re: undefined

#164

Post by filoleg »

belorn wrote: post #150
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

Reading down the comments on this thread, there is a big question. How did this person acquire the drug? It seems to be a controlled substance, ie a prescription drug for malaria, so what happened? Did they also happen to be diagnosed for malaria? In times like this we should advocate for more information and getting facts out.

Reading the details, it seems like the person in question used chloroquine that was acquired in form of an aquarium cleaner. Definitely not something meant to be consumed by humans.

Re: undefined

#165

Post by Uehreka »

tomp wrote: post #44
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

It's been tested for years (decades? it's generic) as an anti-malaria drug. Any drug can be overdosed.

It hasn’t been tested against Covid-19. Recommending (or even vaguely hinting) that people just try random drugs that the FDA has approved for other uses is not a strategy with no downside.

Re: undefined

#166

Post by otterley »

raarts wrote: post #119
glitcher wrote: post #7

Yet another example of "words matter", and the potential consequences when leaders do not use careful consideration in their word choices.

If you don't want to: offend, be misinterpreted or misunderstood, never say a word. The world is full of dumb, mean and easily offended people to which "words matter".

What's your point here?

Re: undefined

#167

Post by orblivion »

DagAgren wrote: post #157
orblivion wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reading "This drug is gonna be great." I'm not reading "take this drug without your doctor's orders".

And do you think that is what every other person is reading?

Clearly not, judging by how my votes are doing. But I think their emotions are getting in the way, leading them to see things that aren't there.

Re: undefined

#168

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #123
anigbrowl wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it — if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody. Surely you've noticed that some folk take the President's public statements at face value.

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#169

Post by teddyvangogh »

rgarrett88 wrote: post #75
tomp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been tested for years (decades? it's generic) as an anti-malaria drug. Any drug can be overdosed.

This one is just particularly easy to overdose on.

Personal responsibility = the idea that human beings choose, instigate, or otherwise cause their own actions.

Stupidity = behavior that shows a lack of good sense or judgment.

Re: undefined

#170

Post by mattkrause »

ummonk wrote: post #88
mattkrause wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Verbatim quote from the President: "if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody." Edit: Yes, I realize what he probably meant . I know how meds work. I still think he should have chosen his wording more carefully.

I.e. even if the drug is ineffective, at least we know it doesn't have fatal side effects, because it has already been used widely and approved for malaria treatment after going through safety trials a long while ago. This is in contrast to experimental drugs, which don't just have questionable efficacy, but also unknown safety. It goes without saying that like all prescription drugs which have been proven safe, chlo…

I realize that's probably what he (or realistically, whoever told him that) meant, but that's not at all what he said.

He's talking to a broad, panicked audience and anyone doing so ought to choose their words carefully. Something like "Great news is that we've already had safety data for this stuff, so we're going straight to efficacy trials!" would convey plenty of optimism without encouraging yahoos to do dumb things.

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