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Things you can do with a browser in 2020

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Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#371

Post by chinesempire »

arendtio wrote: post #370
asjw wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chat is probably one of the only functionalities that are still better served by an ad-hoc app If you need notifications, just use a native app (or even a web one wrapped in a native app) Anyway, most of these "features" are used because they are already there, remove them from the base install of the browser, distribute them as a plugin and make the devs consider that the feature could not be present and they will s…

This is not just about chat. Ever tried to build a cross-device synchronization without being able to push updates to clients? It sucks. The user doesn't know that another user changed something until he opens the app and then the app has to fetch and integrate all updates since the last interaction with the app and the user has to wait until his app is ready.

In whhat way a web app is better in this regards?

Most app that need to push updates to the client do it by having a background service talking to the update server or polling for updates

You can even do it via HTTP(S) if every other protocol is blocked by a firewall or a corporate proxy

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#372

Post by chinesempire »

stickfigure wrote: post #319
asjw wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chat is probably one of the only functionalities that are still better served by an ad-hoc app If you need notifications, just use a native app (or even a web one wrapped in a native app) Anyway, most of these "features" are used because they are already there, remove them from the base install of the browser, distribute them as a plugin and make the devs consider that the feature could not be present and they will s…

Let's say you're using some random website and want to talk to their sales or support team. How well do you think "download this app to chat with us" is going to go over?

That's what email, phone or support tickets are for...

My experience with this kind of services has always been lame and I strongly believe only bad businesses use them

For example the two larger e-commerce sites in the world,Amazon and Alibaba don't use them

If they were a major improvement, they would.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#373

Post by arendtio »

chinesempire wrote: post #371
arendtio wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not just about chat. Ever tried to build a cross-device synchronization without being able to push updates to clients? It sucks. The user doesn't know that another user changed something until he opens the app and then the app has to fetch and integrate all updates since the last interaction with the app and the user has to wait until his app is ready.

In whhat way a web app is better in this regards? Most app that need to push updates to the client do it by having a background service talking to the update server or polling for updates You can even do it via HTTP(S) if every other protocol is blocked by a firewall or a corporate proxy

Web apps are better because they are as much device-independent as apps can get nowadays.

Service Workers are the background service for web apps, but since users don't want those services to drain the battery unnecessarily, you have to use the Push API to trigger those background jobs.

So yes, if the app is the active app, you can do polling, WebSockets and all the like and have no problem. Background services are (rightfully) limited for web apps, but not even providing the Push API kills a lot of valid use cases. Firefox and Chrome both provide that API.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#374

Post by Nextgrid »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #83
rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Then turn them off. All these things landed because users _do_ use them. I 100% want web share, page visibility, usb, and native file system, for instance, because the browser has become a convenient replacement for a bunch of playgroup/PoC/testbed applications that I might have used 10 years ago.

Just like users "used" the toolbar API back in the Internet Explorer 6 days? Used as in they got the toolbar foisted on them while installing some crapware.

The notifications API is the same. How many of those "uses" are legitimate uses that users consciously want, and how many of them are misclicks or just clicking yes to dismiss the prompt so they can access the content they wanted in the first place?

In my case there's only one website I can think of where I want notifications from my browser: Slack. I can understand that some people might want them for e-mails, social networks, etc but even then that's only like a dozen or so websites. In contrast there more websites than that which use notifications for spammy/annoying/unnecessary purposes, and sadly some people do fall for them and then get their time wasted by these notifications.

In a perfect world where nobody would try to take advantage of people I would totally want web notifications to be a thing because there's basically no downside (websites won't try to use them for spam) and potential upsides.

In a world where it's not only legal but morally acceptable to take advantage of people, waste their time, stalk them, etc (there's a whole industry around this called "martech") I would happily sacrifice the few legitimate uses of web notifications if it means non-technical users can't accidentally opt-into crap and then have their time wasted by spam because they don't know how to opt-out.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#376

Post by masswerk »

Nursie wrote: post #356
masswerk wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just open a new window and leave the tab with the video on top of that window. (It hasn't to be always tabs only.)

Doesn't work on mobiles.

Then you are doomed. ;-) (On mobile, it's your browser anyway that mutes any not currently on top and visible web sources, without any "help" by the particular website.)

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#377

Post by oblio »

taeric wrote: post #324
oblio wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most used feature in Microsoft Office is the Paste button in the toolbar: > What we didn't know until we analyzed the data was that even though so many people do use CTRL+V and do use "Paste" on the context menu, the toolbar button for Paste still gets clicked more than any other button. The command is so incredibly popular that even though there are more efficient ways of using it, many people do prefer to click…

As soon as you put so much in the toolbar, people have to use a mouse. That they are still taking the most naturally used action shouldn't be surprising.

Everything in Office can be navigated using the keyboard...

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#378

Post by chinesempire »

arendtio wrote: post #373
chinesempire wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In whhat way a web app is better in this regards? Most app that need to push updates to the client do it by having a background service talking to the update server or polling for updates You can even do it via HTTP(S) if every other protocol is blocked by a firewall or a corporate proxy

Web apps are better because they are as much device-independent as apps can get nowadays. Service Workers are the background service for web apps, but since users don't want those services to drain the battery unnecessarily, you have to use the Push API to trigger those background jobs. So yes, if the app is the active app, you can do polling, WebSockets and all the like and have no problem. Background services are (…

> Web apps are better because they are as much device-independent as apps can get nowadays

They are actually not really.

If you can't run a modern browser on your platform, you're out of luck.

I think the real "as much device-independent as it can get nowadays" is just Firefox

On the major platforms Java is as much as device independent as the web

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#379

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

onion2k wrote: post #277
pjmorris wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I promise that I have never asked for a notification or a pop-up. They 'work' from the point of view of web sites and browser vendors, maybe more so than from the perspective of users.

I promise that I have never asked for a notification or a pop-up. Very few people ask for a specific implementation of a feature unless they want you to clone something they've seen elsewhere. People don't do that. In user focus groups I've been in though users have told me that they find it hard to know when they need to pay attention to something, or when they've been tagged in to something, or to know when a serve…

Turn off notifications by default so that people who need/want them (the minority) can get them from the relevant sites (the exceptions).

After that turn off stickies, floaters, modals, etc by default & those who wish to have their browsing experience assaulted into a 1 inch box can opt in.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#380

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

endemic wrote: post #327
onion2k wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try talking to some developer relations people from the Google Web team, Mozzila, Microsoft etc. They're all very receptive to feature requests. It absolutely isn't a one way street.

> They're all very receptive to feature requests. I think that's part of the problem.

Voted most insightful comment.
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