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The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

nytimes.com

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Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#121

Post by marcosdumay »

sjg007 wrote: post #9
dzdt wrote: post #3

I do not believe the US nor any of its states have made it a goal to stop the virus. Please give me links if this is wrong. Everything I have seen from government sources talks about "flatten the curve" or "slow the spread" or similar. The end result of any flatten the curve effort is 40-80% of the population is infected until the combination of herd immunity and social distancing stops the spread. Please can anyone…

Just wait until the virus mutates. Then things will really be fun.

Looks like there are already 2 strains of it.

Just keep in mind that less lethal (and disabling) strains are inherently better fit and will thus spread faster than more lethal ones. (But yes, it can also contaminate again everybody that has had the virus, most likely with much milder simptoms.) Virus mutation is not cause for despair.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#122

Post by scruple »

amalter wrote: post #22
mrdrozdov wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up the press conference by Cuomo.

I’ve watched every one of Cuomo’s press conferences. He message is always clear - that we are trying to not overwhelm the health system. He doesn’t say “flatten the curve” because he believes words matter and tries to communicate to avoid panic (Hence his refusal to call “Stay Indoors” as “Shelter in Place”) But the medical side of the state government - along with their action - has been consistently flatten the cur…

> call “Stay Indoors” as “Shelter in Place”

This piece of this story is utterly fascinating to me right now. It's like half the population has a completely different interpretation of the phrase shelter-in-place. I feel like it's entirely too vague and has led to a situation where, in my neck of the woods in Orange county, CA, people are using the ambiguous language to justify going about their daily lives. Where, to me, the order is very clear: stay in or near your home. The beach isn't in or near my home. It isn't in or near the majority of our homes. And neither is the dog park, or the county or state parks, or the national forest near us, etc.. And, yet, on social media, it's very easy to find people complaining about how surprised they were when they went to the beach, or where ever, and it was totally packed with people. It's making me question my sanity that we can have such wildly different interpretations of this situation.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#123

Post by bitcharmer »

baybal2 wrote: post #69

Mass testing, and quarantine is very simple. Tell me why what some countries in Africa managed to do to reverse trends in their countries early, cannot be done in the West. Instead, the West went to listen to bizarre "management" theories, over something clear, and obvious.

> some countries in Africa managed to do to reverse trends in their countries early

Source? AFAIK the low number of reported cases is a direct consequence of not running tests.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#124

Post by [deleted] »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #98
bitcharmer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I'm terrified by the number of utter idiots violating the restrictions and putting so many vulnerable people at risk. Or those people recorded while spreading their spit all over a train cart. Where is this coming from? What is those people's end game? It can't be due to stupidity; there must be some malice in this behaviour as well, right?

This is classic attention seeking behavior by people who have suffered trauma (neglect, physical/emotional abuse, etc) themselves. Their brain is wired differently than a "normal" brain due to the trauma.

[deleted]

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#125

Post by streetcat1 »

lb0 wrote: post #95
streetcat1 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. You cannot stop this virus unless you somehow tag who is "clean" and who is "infected" I.e. a solution to this issue would require: 1) Massive testing of everyone. This can be done via a mobile lab or "at home" kit. 2) Issue a clean certificate 3) Division of all areas to "clean" (you can prove that you have been tested) and "infected". For example, you can board a flight or a train only if you are "clean". In…

Wait, what, just right? First we laughed at China, downplayed it, now we ignore them again? (And if not China, why not look more at Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, there seem to be ways to keep the load for the health system reasonable enough .. but what I also miss too much is how we go forward, not just flatten the curve, but also rump up hospitals, and masks for everyone, and what else it takes to get into some reason…

China used this policy since they did not have massive testing (the virus was too new).

Once we have massive testing, we must create clean zones in order to allow the economy to recover.

If we do not create "clean zones", the virus will return as soon as you lift the quarantine.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#126

Post by knbknb »

nradov wrote: post #46
capableweb wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Spain. Yesterday I saw a group of five people standing together in the dog park, about 2 meters apart from each other. Good thing they are practicing social distancing, but their dogs were still playing with each other. We're indeed being laughed at, and rightfully so. Many people are not taking the lock down serious here.

There is no evidence that dogs can spread coronavirus to humans. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/animals.ht...

Yes there is evidence. From Pro-Med Mail:

A second PCR-positive dog, Hong Kong

https://promedmail.org/promed-post/?id=7112693

Apparently it was a very old dog though.

Published Date: 2020-03-19 15:56:45 Subject: PRO/AH/EDR> COVID-19 update (45): China (Hong Kong) animal, dog, 2nd case PCR positive Archive Number: 20200319.7112693

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#127

Post by TeMPOraL »

jtdev wrote: post #23

I find it incredibly hard to believe that China has stopped community spread within the country - I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’re getting PRC propaganda when we hear about “all new cases we’re imported”.

To add to other comments here; I follow some supply chain news, and my impression is that China has been recovering for a month now. I sincerely doubt that they'd let a thoroughly infected population back to work, and that it wouldn't leak out. So this is a weak support that their success story is true.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#128

Post by neonate »

Some experts say. From the article:

"Americans must be persuaded to stay home, they said, and a system put in place to isolate the infected and care for them outside the home. Travel restrictions should be extended, they said; productions of masks and ventilators must be accelerated, and testing problems must be resolved. But tactics like forced isolation, school closings and pervasive GPS tracking of patients brought more divided reactions."

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#129

Post by TeMPOraL »

aww_dang wrote: post #113
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the extent the CCP covered this up in Nov/Dec, it was definitely an evil act. However, I don't think that should very much move the needle on what we believe about the state on the ground in China today. The country is not so closed off that they could hide ongoing mass COVID infections. The WHO's agreement is only one of the several datapoints I mentioned.

Economic, pollution data is similarly manipulated. Local officials have incentives to misreport this data. Why should infection data be any different? The current CCP narrative is that all new cases are imported. Do you find this credible?

> pollution data is similarly manipulated

Even the satellite measurements NASA shoots? I'd sincerely like to see the tech behind that coverup!

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#130

Post by selimthegrim »

ensiferum wrote: post #82
drinchev wrote: post #68

Back in time ( end of January ) when I heard the news about Wuhan and what happened there I was a bit worried, but always positive. When the virus spread in Italy ( I live in Berlin ) I was daily asking "Why don't they stop people from / to Italy?", "Why don't they go and help Italy?", "Where is a plan for handling the situation?", "Why nobody knows >how All in all the answers were : "They don't want to kill the econ…

Proactively shutting things down and restricting freedoms are politically impossible to implement. There's no incentive for any single politician to do anything like this because if it actually worked there'd be no visibility to the general public and thus nobody would understand what they actually did. It's like the proverbial secret goverment agency that stops a bomb from going off and nobody knows what they did. I…

Lol Cuomo at his press conference today was saying "Don't be reactive, be productive"
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