Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 176 posts

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#101

Post by goblin89 »

ShorsHammer wrote: post #75
goblin89 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Seoul, multiple emergency alerts asking people to keep 2 meter distance and to cancel trips and meetings were pushed to mobile phones for the first time yesterday morning. Pedestrian streets in popular districts are still fairly bustling tonight, even if less crowded given the season.

Pushing mobile alerts is what any country with half a clue should be doing. I get regular ones telling me to wash my hands and avoid contact, it's comforting to see them everyfew days.

In South Korea they were a bit overused I think. In addition to hand washing reminders, each phone is getting up to 2 loud but not-really-quite-actionable alerts per day, which report on 2–3 new cases discovered in nearby city districts.

(But then the government uses the same alerts to notify about strong winds and elevated pollution levels, so it’s more or less a given.)

The ones from yesterday were the first to ask people to limit their mobility.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#102

Post by aww_dang »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #42
jtdev wrote: post #23

I find it incredibly hard to believe that China has stopped community spread within the country - I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’re getting PRC propaganda when we hear about “all new cases we’re imported”.

WHO seems to believe. We would have a prior expectation that a strong lockdown would reduce transmission to below 1 per case. China has a strong lockdown. And it would be extremely hard for them to hide it plus massive downside risk and limited upside. So why don't you believe them.

"The reason for the WHO’s failure to properly act to contain the outbreak, and its repeated issuing of inaccurate and bad advice, is not merely the result of incompetence. Rather, the malfeasance is the direct result of the CCP deliberately buying out WHO’s leadership, with tragic consequences."

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/17/u-s-funds-world-health-...

"The coronavirus crisis is raising questions over China's relationship with the World Health Organization"

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/14/asia/coronavirus-who-chin...

"Coronavirus: How WHO Corruption Helped It Spread" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwFTZawOc9k

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#103

Post by bamboozled »

oefrha wrote: post #63
bamboozled wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it takes time to adjust after they were told for weeks it was a hoax? You're blaming the wrong people.

I’m not actually blaming the jerks (which is rather pointless, jerks will be jerks), I’m blaming governments for ostensibly believing jerks don’t exist and asking nicely is enough.

You’re basically asking for authoritarianism. Becareful doing this.

There are plenty of places you can find that outside the US.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#104

Post by drclau »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #100
drclau wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why you were downvoted. Maybe because of the second sentence? Mutation is a very real problem. After all flu goes through it all the time. That is the main reason why we get flu regularly. Second reason is that the immunity may be temporary.

What we understand under "mutation" consists of 2 basic facts: * During replication of cells, DNA changes happen by accident and random chance. This yields random new traits. * A random trait might be useful to survival and reproduction, or it might be a hindrance. Maybe a trait that was once beneficial becomes a hindrance when the environment in which an organism lives shifts (i.e. higher Ph values of a pond of wate…

As much as I appreciate the lengthy explanation, my concern was strictly related to the possibility that immunity gained by getting over the infection once, may be cancelled if/when the virus mutates (enough).

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#105

Post by jtdev »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #42
jtdev wrote: post #23

I find it incredibly hard to believe that China has stopped community spread within the country - I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’re getting PRC propaganda when we hear about “all new cases we’re imported”.

WHO seems to believe. We would have a prior expectation that a strong lockdown would reduce transmission to below 1 per case. China has a strong lockdown. And it would be extremely hard for them to hide it plus massive downside risk and limited upside. So why don't you believe them.

Yeah, WHO seems to have lost some credibility during this crisis as well...

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#106

Post by lb0 »

ensiferum wrote: post #82
drinchev wrote: post #68

Back in time ( end of January ) when I heard the news about Wuhan and what happened there I was a bit worried, but always positive. When the virus spread in Italy ( I live in Berlin ) I was daily asking "Why don't they stop people from / to Italy?", "Why don't they go and help Italy?", "Where is a plan for handling the situation?", "Why nobody knows >how All in all the answers were : "They don't want to kill the econ…

Proactively shutting things down and restricting freedoms are politically impossible to implement. There's no incentive for any single politician to do anything like this because if it actually worked there'd be no visibility to the general public and thus nobody would understand what they actually did. It's like the proverbial secret goverment agency that stops a bomb from going off and nobody knows what they did. I…

Not true, because there will be enough "test groups" due to this thinking already (and I believe now even the last one realized that this will now go everyhwere).

China locked down around ~400 known infections, in terms of spread we will soon learn what it means to have only done similar but much less strict lockdown at 1000, 4000, 8000 infections, actually it is all a number game, and the numbers were sharp enough and visible for everyone during February already.. we will pay a lot four our stupidity and "politically impossible", we said this since start of the year about Chinas measures, but what was politically impossible will now take longer and almost reach same strictness levels here..

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#107

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

aww_dang wrote: post #102
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WHO seems to believe. We would have a prior expectation that a strong lockdown would reduce transmission to below 1 per case. China has a strong lockdown. And it would be extremely hard for them to hide it plus massive downside risk and limited upside. So why don't you believe them.

"The reason for the WHO’s failure to properly act to contain the outbreak, and its repeated issuing of inaccurate and bad advice, is not merely the result of incompetence. Rather, the malfeasance is the direct result of the CCP deliberately buying out WHO’s leadership, with tragic consequences." https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/17/u-s-funds-world-health-... "The coronavirus crisis is raising questions over China's r…

Yeah I'm not really buying what these articles are selling. The world had plenty of time to act and opted not to. This all seems more like an attempt to avoid blame than a credible analysis of the situation. It's a far better story for the western politicians that the evil Chinese didn't give enough warning than to acknowledge that plenty of warning was given and none was heeded until the developing crisis was already realized in western countries.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#108

Post by arcturus17 »

nradov wrote: post #46
capableweb wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Spain. Yesterday I saw a group of five people standing together in the dog park, about 2 meters apart from each other. Good thing they are practicing social distancing, but their dogs were still playing with each other. We're indeed being laughed at, and rightfully so. Many people are not taking the lock down serious here.

There is no evidence that dogs can spread coronavirus to humans. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/animals.ht...

So what happens if I have covid19, I pet or hug a dog, and five minutes later someone else touches it? The virus suddenly disappears across the entire dog's surface?

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#109

Post by aww_dang »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #107
aww_dang wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The reason for the WHO’s failure to properly act to contain the outbreak, and its repeated issuing of inaccurate and bad advice, is not merely the result of incompetence. Rather, the malfeasance is the direct result of the CCP deliberately buying out WHO’s leadership, with tragic consequences." https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/17/u-s-funds-world-health-... "The coronavirus crisis is raising questions over China's r…

Yeah I'm not really buying what these articles are selling. The world had plenty of time to act and opted not to. This all seems more like an attempt to avoid blame than a credible analysis of the situation. It's a far better story for the western politicians that the evil Chinese didn't give enough warning than to acknowledge that plenty of warning was given and none was heeded until the developing crisis was alread…

There are two separate ideas at play here.

1)The credibility of the WHO in regards to the CCP.

2)The culpability of CCP in regards to covering up the pandemic which began in territory it controls. Allegedly this outbreak began in November. Doctors who warned about it were arrested.

Your response references a third issue

3)Western officials had sufficient time to formulate a 'better' response

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#110

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

aww_dang wrote: post #109
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm not really buying what these articles are selling. The world had plenty of time to act and opted not to. This all seems more like an attempt to avoid blame than a credible analysis of the situation. It's a far better story for the western politicians that the evil Chinese didn't give enough warning than to acknowledge that plenty of warning was given and none was heeded until the developing crisis was alread…

There are two separate ideas at play here. 1)The credibility of the WHO in regards to the CCP. 2)The culpability of CCP in regards to covering up the pandemic which began in territory it controls. Allegedly this outbreak began in November. Doctors who warned about it were arrested. Your response references a third issue 3)Western officials had sufficient time to formulate a 'better' response

To the extent the CCP covered this up in Nov/Dec, it was definitely an evil act. However, I don't think that should very much move the needle on what we believe about the state on the ground in China today. The country is not so closed off that they could hide ongoing mass COVID infections. The WHO's agreement is only one of the several datapoints I mentioned.
Post reply on HN