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The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

nytimes.com

41–50 of 176 posts

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#41
post #23

I find it incredibly hard to believe that China has stopped community spread within the country - I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’re getting PRC propaganda when we hear about “all new cases we’re imported”.

Have you seen their lockdown? their lockdown laughs at Europes lockdown.

I live in Spain. Yesterday I saw a group of five people standing together in the dog park, about 2 meters apart from each other. Good thing they are practicing social distancing, but their dogs were still playing with each other. We're indeed being laughed at, and rightfully so. Many people are not taking the lock down serious here.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#42
post #23

I find it incredibly hard to believe that China has stopped community spread within the country - I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’re getting PRC propaganda when we hear about “all new cases we’re imported”.

WHO seems to believe. We would have a prior expectation that a strong lockdown would reduce transmission to below 1 per case. China has a strong lockdown. And it would be extremely hard for them to hide it plus massive downside risk and limited upside. So why don't you believe them.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#43
post #23

I find it incredibly hard to believe that China has stopped community spread within the country - I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’re getting PRC propaganda when we hear about “all new cases we’re imported”.

Have you seen their lockdown? their lockdown laughs at Europes lockdown.

There's a Yakov Smirnoff joke in there.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#44
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you're being downvoted, but I don't sense any malice in your post. You're also not incorrect in your assessment, but your scope is a bit limited. There are far more than just undocumented immigrants who can't afford to stay home and will have to do whatever they can do to keep life going for themselves. This is true everywhere, not just the US. The last to comply won't be holding out due to malice or ignorance,…

But the OP is misguided and targeting a beaten down population. What difference does it make if you’re making $7.25/hr as a natural born citizen or an undocumented immigrant? Either way this thing is hurting you hard, and people are going to act like people. It’s really, really misinformed to think that undocumented immigrants are the only ones suffering, and that “good natural born Americans” can all afford to sit i…

the difference?

Undocumented people are less likely to seek medical care if they become ill. At least in our political climate.

During a pandemic that’s dangerous for everyone. The general population and for them and their families

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#45
post #5

If there’s anything the current debacles in Europe and the U.S. has taught us, it’s that selfish and/or irrational jerks abound, and asking nicely doesn’t work at all.

I don’t believe most people are jerks. They are just in disbelief that such a dire situation is possible. Yes, it’s important to ask and with a high level of seriousness. If the internet has taught me anything, it’s that people need to read something 8 or more times before fully internalizing it.

as much as I agree on the importance of flatting the curve, I also share this sentiment. there are people who have been living in a precarious state for far too long and for who flatting the curve seems a hypocrit luxury invented by those who have ignored them for far too long. the list would include anyone incarcerated, undocumented workers, addicts on hard drugs now unable to get their fix[1], migrants stuck between borders or in a refugee camp, ... the list is long and incomplete.

then there are those who have fallen prey to politicans telling them it's a hoax and who have made up their mind long ago (once the mind is made up it's impossible to walk them back to another reasoning), and now see it as just another attack by cancel culture on their values.

then there are the politicans who use a blunt tool like closing borders and export stops: notable example any EU country (Germany, France etc) who watched Italy's numbers explode and refused to supply PPE under the justification that it's soon needed by themselves (ignoring that early containment would be a common goal). Especially in Europe the lack of a common coherent response is a disappointment - and instead every country is on its own.

then there is cancel culture itself who like to throw these camps under the bus and use overly simplistic reasoning and resort to name-calling which hardens their opponents views even further.

maybe this is cynical but I doubt we'll win this, instead we'll just muddle through as always and either blame each other or congratulate how well we did depending on the individual outcome.

[1] methadone is only an option if you're already a registered user, and I doubt priority of doctors today is to give appointments to addicts who suddenly see themselves facing a supply problem

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen their lockdown? their lockdown laughs at Europes lockdown.

I live in Spain. Yesterday I saw a group of five people standing together in the dog park, about 2 meters apart from each other. Good thing they are practicing social distancing, but their dogs were still playing with each other. We're indeed being laughed at, and rightfully so. Many people are not taking the lock down serious here.

There is no evidence that dogs can spread coronavirus to humans.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/animals.ht...

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#47
Which experts are proposing the way forward is actually a total lockdown? This article is distorting what experts are actually saying. This virus will not go away, it needs to be managed. Please consider the following articles of what experts are ACTUALLY saying:

https://medium.com/@AmeshAA/covid19-a-path-forward-868d5e8dc... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/17/coronavirus-us-must-confront...

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#48
post #5

If there’s anything the current debacles in Europe and the U.S. has taught us, it’s that selfish and/or irrational jerks abound, and asking nicely doesn’t work at all.

It's also a cultural problem. We've taken individualism too far. It's become a religion with dogmatic followers who will double down on it even when it is absolutely the worst option for the circumstance.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#49
post #23

I find it incredibly hard to believe that China has stopped community spread within the country - I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’re getting PRC propaganda when we hear about “all new cases we’re imported”.

They might have contained it better as they went pretty intense on lockdown. There were lots of videos on internet from their lockdown on which people were laughing at China being an authoritarian state. The videos displayed homes being taped from outside if someone in that home was suspected of having it, people being picked from streets etc. Being an authoritarian state really helps in these scenarios as you can suppress liberties easily without people rising up in arms about it.

Having said this though, being an authoritarian state with constant efforts to have a good image, they might have underreported the numbers of actual cases.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#50
post #23

I find it incredibly hard to believe that China has stopped community spread within the country - I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’re getting PRC propaganda when we hear about “all new cases we’re imported”.

That's fair, but aren't all the comments talking about PRC propaganda propaganda itself?

> I hope I’m wrong

Do you really? It seems to me that many who share your sentiments actually want things to get worse both in china and around the world. That's just the feeling I get reading the comments.

Also, it would be interesting if there was a study done on the "PRC propaganda" crowd and the "CCP propaganda" crowd - from a linguistic and propaganda standpoint.

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