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Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

nytimes.com

31–40 of 185 posts

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#31
post #4

I’ve been thinking a lot about the next looming crisis: Climate Change. On Bloomberg radio a few weeks ago, an analyst / money manager was talking about how his firm was looking at satellite imagery of pollution in China to measure their economic recovery. More pollution == “better”. Something is clearly unsustainable with that formula. Like the virus, the longer we wait to take action, the more expensive it is and t…

It's just so interesting how the same event could lead people to such drastically different observations and take aways. For instance, > the importance of global cooperation, For me, and many others, this pandemic has highlighted the need to be less centralized and dependent on foreign nations, especially with respects to China. Relying on them for our global pharmaceutical supply chain, for instance, seems like a te…

> Technology must be the answer here.

This doesn't require new technology. We know how to make electric cars, electric heat pumps, solar panels, nuclear reactors etc. This is all existing technology.

But take a look at oil prices right now. That's what happens if you start to reduce world demand for oil, and that's the real problem. All we need from governments is to put a sufficient tax on carbon that keeps carbon more expensive than alternatives even as the demand for oil and coal falls off a cliff.

Which doesn't even make oil dramatically more expensive -- it only keeps it at least as expensive as it was last year against declining demand, as economies of scale pick up for carbon alternatives and they become cheaper and thus more customers choose them.

A carbon tax doesn't destroy the economy, all it does is destroy the oil industry (faster).

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#32
post #4

I’ve been thinking a lot about the next looming crisis: Climate Change. On Bloomberg radio a few weeks ago, an analyst / money manager was talking about how his firm was looking at satellite imagery of pollution in China to measure their economic recovery. More pollution == “better”. Something is clearly unsustainable with that formula. Like the virus, the longer we wait to take action, the more expensive it is and t…

I also have hope that this tragedy brings humanity forward. Not only with climate change, but a lot of other things. More contacts between people (video calls to friends and family far away). Doctors are increasing the use of video calling and sending prescriptions via email already. Bill Gates' 2015 TED now doesn't seem just a faraway prediction now, so hopefully governments will form a "health NATO". Seeing Venice…

Doesn't Venice have "clean water" because all the silt that was suspended in the water due to gondola traffic has now settled on the bottom of the canals?

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#34
post #28

So far, the COVID-19 pandemic is showing us that People, rather than Consumption, matter most. We need consumption to support people, yes, but Economic expansion and increasing consumption can't go on infinitely. Most people shouldn't be able to afford a car - they should be taking public transit - but they can obtain one because they take out loans. The american fracking industry shouldn't exist, but it can because…

>Most people shouldn't be able to afford a car - they should be taking public transit - but they can obtain one because they take out loans. A car isn't a "want" for most people outside of major US cities. It's a need. Public transport has never been effective in most of the US. Hell, I'd have to cross an interstate on foot in order to reach work. How many weeks do you estimate it'd take me to get killed? Should I be…

> A car isn't a "want" for most people outside of major US cities. It's a need.

It doesn't have to stay this way. Smaller cities and towns can invest in public transportation. Activities which must be in person could be decentralized to more local sites.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#35
post #4

I’ve been thinking a lot about the next looming crisis: Climate Change. On Bloomberg radio a few weeks ago, an analyst / money manager was talking about how his firm was looking at satellite imagery of pollution in China to measure their economic recovery. More pollution == “better”. Something is clearly unsustainable with that formula. Like the virus, the longer we wait to take action, the more expensive it is and t…

Yeah, like we did for the financial crisis, the climate crisis, etc. In a nutshell ? Either you approach this with a class warfare mindset or the usual suspects are going to come out on top again.

Genuine question: what’s wrong with class warfare if certain classes are causing an overwhelming amount of the problem?

Typically, you go to war against whatever is putting your life in peril.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#37
post #11

Is anyone else wondering if the shutdown for COVID-19 will have a significant impact on carbon emissions? If it does, then it could actually save far more lives than it takes.

A population’s physical health is very highly correlated with their economic health. [1] If COVID-19 has a significant impact on carbon emissions it’s because it caused significant economic depression. A significant economic depression dramatically increases poverty levels, and increasing poverty would cost significantly more lives even than will be lost to COVID itself. [2] The life expectancy gap between the poores…

> The life expectancy gap between the poorest and wealthiest Americans is about 15 years.

That's a function of our broken system, not our overall wealth as a nation. Poverty in the U.S. has been increasing alongside GDP for years now. Restoring the economy to the way it was won't solve that.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just so interesting how the same event could lead people to such drastically different observations and take aways. For instance, > the importance of global cooperation, For me, and many others, this pandemic has highlighted the need to be less centralized and dependent on foreign nations, especially with respects to China. Relying on them for our global pharmaceutical supply chain, for instance, seems like a te…

> Technology must be the answer here. This doesn't require new technology. We know how to make electric cars, electric heat pumps, solar panels, nuclear reactors etc. This is all existing technology. But take a look at oil prices right now. That's what happens if you start to reduce world demand for oil, and that's the real problem. All we need from governments is to put a sufficient tax on carbon that keeps carbon m…

All great points, and the time to start taxing carbon is now at this low price, as the shock to consumers won’t be as great.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#39
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people shouldn't be able to afford a car - they should be taking public transit - but they can obtain one because they take out loans. A car isn't a "want" for most people outside of major US cities. It's a need. Public transport has never been effective in most of the US. Hell, I'd have to cross an interstate on foot in order to reach work. How many weeks do you estimate it'd take me to get killed? Should I be…

> A car isn't a "want" for most people outside of major US cities. It's a need. It doesn't have to stay this way. Smaller cities and towns can invest in public transportation. Activities which must be in person could be decentralized to more local sites.

It seems likely there will be a lot less interest in public transit investment after the pandemic. Not more.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have hope that this tragedy brings humanity forward. Not only with climate change, but a lot of other things. More contacts between people (video calls to friends and family far away). Doctors are increasing the use of video calling and sending prescriptions via email already. Bill Gates' 2015 TED now doesn't seem just a faraway prediction now, so hopefully governments will form a "health NATO". Seeing Venice…

Doesn't Venice have "clean water" because all the silt that was suspended in the water due to gondola traffic has now settled on the bottom of the canals?

Venice doesn't have clean water. They're images from another town at another time in the latest iteration of "take an old picture, make up a lie relevant to current news, and pass it around for clicks"
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