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Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

nytimes.com

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Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#11

Post by zaroth »

nicoburns wrote: post #3

Is anyone else wondering if the shutdown for COVID-19 will have a significant impact on carbon emissions? If it does, then it could actually save far more lives than it takes.

A population’s physical health is very highly correlated with their economic health. [1]

If COVID-19 has a significant impact on carbon emissions it’s because it caused significant economic depression.

A significant economic depression dramatically increases poverty levels, and increasing poverty would cost significantly more lives even than will be lost to COVID itself. [2]

The life expectancy gap between the poorest and wealthiest Americans is about 15 years. [3]

[1] - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/poverty-vs-life-expectanc...

[2] - https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/12388371731111403...

[3] - http://news.mit.edu/2016/study-rich-poor-huge-mortality-gap-...

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#12

Post by nicoburns »

zaroth wrote: post #11
nicoburns wrote: post #3

Is anyone else wondering if the shutdown for COVID-19 will have a significant impact on carbon emissions? If it does, then it could actually save far more lives than it takes.

A population’s physical health is very highly correlated with their economic health. [1] If COVID-19 has a significant impact on carbon emissions it’s because it caused significant economic depression. A significant economic depression dramatically increases poverty levels, and increasing poverty would cost significantly more lives even than will be lost to COVID itself. [2] The life expectancy gap between the poores…

Yes, but still not nearly as many as if say bangladesh floods.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#13

Post by aledalgrande »

gdubs wrote: post #4

I’ve been thinking a lot about the next looming crisis: Climate Change. On Bloomberg radio a few weeks ago, an analyst / money manager was talking about how his firm was looking at satellite imagery of pollution in China to measure their economic recovery. More pollution == “better”. Something is clearly unsustainable with that formula. Like the virus, the longer we wait to take action, the more expensive it is and t…

I also have hope that this tragedy brings humanity forward. Not only with climate change, but a lot of other things. More contacts between people (video calls to friends and family far away). Doctors are increasing the use of video calling and sending prescriptions via email already. Bill Gates' 2015 TED now doesn't seem just a faraway prediction now, so hopefully governments will form a "health NATO". Seeing Venice with clean water will maybe make the administration think, "wow, this is gorgeous, why don't we find a way to keep it like this?" Just disconnected thoughts of hope.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#14

Post by johnchristopher »

gdubs wrote: post #4

I’ve been thinking a lot about the next looming crisis: Climate Change. On Bloomberg radio a few weeks ago, an analyst / money manager was talking about how his firm was looking at satellite imagery of pollution in China to measure their economic recovery. More pollution == “better”. Something is clearly unsustainable with that formula. Like the virus, the longer we wait to take action, the more expensive it is and t…

Yeah, like we did for the financial crisis, the climate crisis, etc.

In a nutshell ? Either you approach this with a class warfare mindset or the usual suspects are going to come out on top again.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#15

Post by gkfasdfasdf »

admax88q wrote: post #5
nicoburns wrote: post #3

Is anyone else wondering if the shutdown for COVID-19 will have a significant impact on carbon emissions? If it does, then it could actually save far more lives than it takes.

I doubt the shutdown will be long enough to have significant long term impact. But maybe it will give people an appreciation for how nice the world can be with less pollution. A shift in attitude could cause long term changes in our tolerance for pollution.

The lower traffic has been great for running - much easier to cross busy intersections.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#16

Post by dgellow »

nicoburns wrote: post #3

Is anyone else wondering if the shutdown for COVID-19 will have a significant impact on carbon emissions? If it does, then it could actually save far more lives than it takes.

Depends how things play out once we are done with the virus crisis. It's possible that we will see crazy level of production and consumption to compensate the down time, resulting in way more carbon emissions. And governments will surely want to boost their economy at any cost, that could be quite bad for ecological policies.

Definitely not what I personally want, I'm in Europe and hope that EU members use the current situation as a way to work closer together and come with even stronger environmental regulation.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#17

Post by amelius »

gdubs wrote: post #4

I’ve been thinking a lot about the next looming crisis: Climate Change. On Bloomberg radio a few weeks ago, an analyst / money manager was talking about how his firm was looking at satellite imagery of pollution in China to measure their economic recovery. More pollution == “better”. Something is clearly unsustainable with that formula. Like the virus, the longer we wait to take action, the more expensive it is and t…

> The world has pressed the pause button for a moment.

Well so far it has only been 1 or 2 weeks, comparable to the annual X-mas break in duration. So I'm curious: are the effects really significantly different here so far?

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#19

Post by deevolution »

So far, the COVID-19 pandemic is showing us that People, rather than Consumption, matter most.

We need consumption to support people, yes, but Economic expansion and increasing consumption can't go on infinitely.

Most people shouldn't be able to afford a car - they should be taking public transit - but they can obtain one because they take out loans.

The american fracking industry shouldn't exist, but it can because it has access to cheap, infinite lines of credit.

Our health suffers for it.

So many people and businesses are able to live beyond their means because of access to credit. If we eliminate the ability to create credit, then consumption would drop to a sustainable level and pollution would also drop and we would see an end to wasteful businesses, products, processes, and ways of life.

Re: Traffic and Pollution Plummet as U.S. Cities Shut Down

#20

Post by lol768 »

deevolution wrote: post #19

So far, the COVID-19 pandemic is showing us that People, rather than Consumption, matter most. We need consumption to support people, yes, but Economic expansion and increasing consumption can't go on infinitely. Most people shouldn't be able to afford a car - they should be taking public transit - but they can obtain one because they take out loans. The american fracking industry shouldn't exist, but it can because…

> So many people and businesses are able to live beyond their means because of access to credit. If we eliminate the ability to create credit, then consumption would drop to a sustainable level and pollution would also drop and we would see an end to wasteful businesses, products, processes, and ways of life.

What about housing? A mortgage is going to be the only way for a lot of people to ever afford their own home.

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