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Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

globalhealthnow.org

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Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#71

Post by bad_user »

baxtr wrote: post #56
ehsankia wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has the potential to, but so far, there hasn't really much of it, or have I been missing it? Obviously progress is slow, but I think there's also a lot of fluff being thrown around, so we won't really know for some time. I haven't noticed any extra amount of cooperation though between countries, more so than the usual.

Yeah, I agree, unfortunately. Best examples: To my best knowledge no other European country has pledged massive help to Italy. China did a bit.

The EU did not have strategic reserves for a pandemic. This took us all by surprise and the speed with which this evolved into a clusterfuck was breathtaking. Everyone has been freaking out about their own situation. Nobody has enough masks, ventilators, hospital beds or trained staff.

Consider that the first cases in Rome were confirmed on January 31 to my knowledge. We are less than 2 months in.

Also this news about China providing aid whereas the EU refused to do so is probably one in a long chain of fake news promoted by Russia, meant to destabilize EU. Shame on you for spreading it.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-disinf...

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#73

Post by [deleted] »

bad_user wrote: post #71
baxtr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree, unfortunately. Best examples: To my best knowledge no other European country has pledged massive help to Italy. China did a bit.

The EU did not have strategic reserves for a pandemic. This took us all by surprise and the speed with which this evolved into a clusterfuck was breathtaking. Everyone has been freaking out about their own situation. Nobody has enough masks, ventilators, hospital beds or trained staff. Consider that the first cases in Rome were confirmed on January 31 to my knowledge. We are less than 2 months in. Also this news abou…

[deleted]

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#74

Post by DrAwdeOccarim »

agumonkey wrote: post #68
tcbawo wrote: post #43

Some emerging theories of pathology suggest that lung function can be increased by reinflating collapsed alveoli with constant pressure: https://emcrit.org/pulmcrit/cpap-covid/ . It describes cases where oxygen supplementation could be reduced or eliminated. This development ( https://www.isinnova.it/easy-covid19-eng/ ) looks very promising for 'sub-intensive' cases -- adapting decathlon mask/snorkel with a 3D printe…

I don't know where to ask.. is vaporized cbd helpful ? it's said to be a potent anti inflammatory compounds and also help cleansing cells through apoptosis.

I doubt it, though I don't have any references. Do you have any peer reviewed papers on CBD and lung function?

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#75

Post by DrAwdeOccarim »

_bxg1 wrote: post #44
ehsankia wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has the potential to, but so far, there hasn't really much of it, or have I been missing it? Obviously progress is slow, but I think there's also a lot of fluff being thrown around, so we won't really know for some time. I haven't noticed any extra amount of cooperation though between countries, more so than the usual.

I guess I primarily mean the people on the ground. Not the politicians - the best that can be said about them is that they're getting out of the way (in some, not all cases) - but the doctors and nurses, the scientists, the grocery store workers, the companies converting their factories to make medical supplies, and yes, even the bureaucrats who are pushing this stuff through. There are still lots of people out there…

Not to bail Trump out because I have found his reactive leadership bad (all he had to do was get out of the way of the experts), but America--in my humble opinion--has always been bottom up. The idea that >300 million people can agree on anything always amazes me, and the design of the country is to allow as much autonomy to localities as possible while maintaining broad collaboration and cohesion. This is already shining where the US testing capacity has gone from basically zero to the highest in the world (>40k per day) in a matter of 2 weeks. Yes, the Federal government dropped the ball (tapping Scott Gottlieb instead of Pence would have made a big difference), but the private sector stepped up big. Two weeks from now I expect N95 masks, other PPE, and vents all being made in huge capacities.

So back to your "people on the ground" comment. I totally agree. It's the bottom up Americanism that will get us through this, as usual. It reminds me of the famous Abba Eban quote often misattributed to Churchill, "Americans Will Always Do the Right Thing — After Exhausting All the Alternatives". This totally holds true right now, and likely always will.

The really amazing thing is going to be three American companies proving through clinical trials in the next 6-8 months that we invented a new technology (genetic-based vaccines) that produced a functional vaccine by the end of the year (Moderna), that we have a potent anti-viral compound ready to use in two months (Giliad), and antibody therapy ready 8 months (Regeneron). That's nuts. If we go through the motions this time, we will be prepared to dramatically increase the speed of approvals and testing when the the next viral pandemic comes.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#76

Post by samsonradu »

My knowledge about industrial manufacturing is slim to none so can someone explain please why is it not possible to (globally) ramp up production of face masks and ventilators to a virtually unlimited quantity?

What exactly is the bottleneck? Are we lacking materials, labour or the technical know-how? Are the factories currently producing them so advanced and hard to reproduce?

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#77

Post by funcDropShadow »

nikofeyn wrote: post #69
_bxg1 wrote: post #41

This crisis is the first event in my lifetime that's given me any optimism about our ability, as a global civilization, to solve problems and get things done. I don't feel like we've seen humanity at its best in several decades. Shame it always takes a catastrophe (and an immediate one at that; see climate change) to bring it out.

> This crisis is the first event in my lifetime that's given me any optimism about our ability, as a global civilization, to solve problems and get things done. would you mind elaborating? because i find it extremely difficult how one could hold such an optimistic and apparent naive opinion. from where i sit, this crisis is showing the exact opposite. there is very little international communication and cooperation,…

If you are focused on the U.S., then I understand your sentiment. But if you look beyond, it is really promising. Medical science and biology are producing new scientific knowledge about CoViD-19 and SARS-Cov2 at break neck speed. That alone is amazing to see. On the other hand, you really see that people get it and that they have to do social distancing to help them and everybody else. On top of that you see, e.g. China helping European countries in their crisis. That is unprecedented. The outlook for the U.S. might be more grim, at least as seen from Europe. It seems pretty obvious that medicine as a business is not the right setup to tackle a pandemic. Germany moved into that direction into the last 20 years. And everybody is realizing the downsides of that move, now. Although it could be seen for 20 years if you bothered to look. Back to the U.S., I find it deeply worrying that people started to buy guns. Do they believe they could shoot the virus? Or do they expect looting and civil uproar? That would be the worst people could do in such a crisis. I hope it doesn't come to that. And finally, Trump. I think I don't have to write anything about him by now.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#78

Post by kevingadd »

_bxg1 wrote: post #41

This crisis is the first event in my lifetime that's given me any optimism about our ability, as a global civilization, to solve problems and get things done. I don't feel like we've seen humanity at its best in several decades. Shame it always takes a catastrophe (and an immediate one at that; see climate change) to bring it out.

This crisis has mostly been a massive demonstration of how capitalism undermines society's ability to prevent and cope with disasters. We're seeing individual people show their best while profit motive leads to people sabotaging others' hope of success. A few examples:

* A particular politician prioritizing low numbers (to look good) over actual infection reduction

* A particular government not issuing orders for needed equipment - we still haven't placed orders and handed money to for-profit ventilator manufacturers, so they can't afford to just manufacture more

* A particular government failing to fund ongoing mask manufacturing to guarantee a stockpile in advance for pandemics despite being advised to do so, as a result manufacturers had to cut staff and lower capacity

* For-profit hospitals being on the verge of running out of money due to treatment for uninsured patients not being funded

* Governments having to contemplate sending out massive checks to citizens and/or provide financial assistance in exchange for employers not laying off all their staff

* Price gouging for emergency essentials like masks and hand sanitizer, forcing local governments and marketplaces to act aggressively to punish it

* Government officials delaying necessary containment measures like closing beaches or banning gatherings as an attempt to preserve local businesses at the expense of public health

* Cruise ships... just cruise ships in general. The idea that they are still operational as floating incubators for hundreds of new cases is just obscene.

* COVID-19 spreading more rapidly among the elderly in WA because care home workers have to work multiple jobs to pay rent, resulting in them taking it between care homes

Other less-capitalist nations are still struggling with COVID-19 but capitalist responses to it have so far been wildly insufficient.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#79

Post by raverbashing »

samsonradu wrote: post #76

My knowledge about industrial manufacturing is slim to none so can someone explain please why is it not possible to (globally) ramp up production of face masks and ventilators to a virtually unlimited quantity? What exactly is the bottleneck? Are we lacking materials, labour or the technical know-how? Are the factories currently producing them so advanced and hard to reproduce?

I think you can ramp production of those but it will still require people to work them and the most severe cases are still fatal even with the ventilators.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#80

Post by fulafel »

samsonradu wrote: post #76

My knowledge about industrial manufacturing is slim to none so can someone explain please why is it not possible to (globally) ramp up production of face masks and ventilators to a virtually unlimited quantity? What exactly is the bottleneck? Are we lacking materials, labour or the technical know-how? Are the factories currently producing them so advanced and hard to reproduce?

Same as many other problems (eg global warming) - the market economy can't deliver a solution because it's not short teem profitable for the relevant actors.
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