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Python: language moratorium is lifted

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Re: Python: language moratorium is lifted

#11

Post by martincmartin »

ableal wrote: post #7
pero wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, essentially, the non-"python-is-my-second-language" crowd should wait not just for v3-as-is to gain acceptance, but until 3.3 before they start migrating, or what? From a high-level outsider perspective, the shift from 2.x to "current" looks like amateur hour.

> the shift from 2.x to "current" looks like amateur hour "Amateur hour" would be to expect the shift to occur overnight, with magic powers conferred by unicorns and butterflies. If you look at the developers posts (instead of random uninformed excitable blogs) you'll see that it was realistically expected to take a few years. See, for instance, core developer J. Noller's comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/ite…

Please don't feed the trolls.

Re: Python: language moratorium is lifted

#12

Post by wisty »

pero wrote: post #4
dalke wrote: post #2

Quoting from PEP 303: This PEP proposes a temporary moratorium (suspension) of all changes to the Python language syntax, semantics, and built-ins for a period of at least two years from the release of Python 3.1. In particular, the moratorium would include Python 3.2 (to be released 18-24 months after 3.1) but allow Python 3.3 (assuming it is not released prematurely) to once again include language changes. Python 3…

So, essentially, the non-"python-is-my-second-language" crowd should wait not just for v3-as-is to gain acceptance, but until 3.3 before they start migrating, or what? From a high-level outsider perspective, the shift from 2.x to "current" looks like amateur hour.

> From a high-level outsider perspective, the shift from 2.x to "current" looks like amateur hour.

You are hearing a lot of noise now, because 3.X has finally become viable enough to be interesting to the wider python community, I hope. That's why people keep hyping it.

3.0 was not ready, and only a few dedicated pythoneers (like Mark Pilgrim) pushed it.

It was very professional of the python community to keep 3.X in it's mother's basement until it was well-enough dressed to be seen in public.

Re: Python: language moratorium is lifted

#13

Post by jedbrown »

ableal wrote: post #7
pero wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, essentially, the non-"python-is-my-second-language" crowd should wait not just for v3-as-is to gain acceptance, but until 3.3 before they start migrating, or what? From a high-level outsider perspective, the shift from 2.x to "current" looks like amateur hour.

> the shift from 2.x to "current" looks like amateur hour "Amateur hour" would be to expect the shift to occur overnight, with magic powers conferred by unicorns and butterflies. If you look at the developers posts (instead of random uninformed excitable blogs) you'll see that it was realistically expected to take a few years. See, for instance, core developer J. Noller's comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/ite…

Perhaps my biggest complaint is that until recently, Python-2.x releases were not packaged with an executable named "python2", thus during the transition to Python-3.x, there is no safe way to specify which major version your script requires in the shebang. Arch Linux is already using version 3 for /usr/bin/python so any third-party scripts that require version 2 are broken. Other distros may wait a few years to do this, but it will still be painful. It would be much nicer if script writers could update the shebang to use "python2" if that is what they need. (It is difficult to make the same code be valid in python3 and python2 if you have to support people on RHEL4 or RHEL5 (python 2.3 and 2.4 respectively), for example.)

Re: Python: language moratorium is lifted

#14

Post by pero »

martincmartin wrote: post #11
ableal wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the shift from 2.x to "current" looks like amateur hour "Amateur hour" would be to expect the shift to occur overnight, with magic powers conferred by unicorns and butterflies. If you look at the developers posts (instead of random uninformed excitable blogs) you'll see that it was realistically expected to take a few years. See, for instance, core developer J. Noller's comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/ite…

Please don't feed the trolls.

With what? Knowledge? Get over yourself.

Re: Python: language moratorium is lifted

#15

Post by pero »

ableal wrote: post #7
pero wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, essentially, the non-"python-is-my-second-language" crowd should wait not just for v3-as-is to gain acceptance, but until 3.3 before they start migrating, or what? From a high-level outsider perspective, the shift from 2.x to "current" looks like amateur hour.

> the shift from 2.x to "current" looks like amateur hour "Amateur hour" would be to expect the shift to occur overnight, with magic powers conferred by unicorns and butterflies. If you look at the developers posts (instead of random uninformed excitable blogs) you'll see that it was realistically expected to take a few years. See, for instance, core developer J. Noller's comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/ite…

Is this standard practice for language new version roll-outs?

Re: Python: language moratorium is lifted

#16

Post by JeremyBanks »

jedbrown wrote: post #13
ableal wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the shift from 2.x to "current" looks like amateur hour "Amateur hour" would be to expect the shift to occur overnight, with magic powers conferred by unicorns and butterflies. If you look at the developers posts (instead of random uninformed excitable blogs) you'll see that it was realistically expected to take a few years. See, for instance, core developer J. Noller's comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/ite…

Perhaps my biggest complaint is that until recently, Python-2.x releases were not packaged with an executable named "python2", thus during the transition to Python-3.x, there is no safe way to specify which major version your script requires in the shebang. Arch Linux is already using version 3 for /usr/bin/python so any third-party scripts that require version 2 are broken. Other distros may wait a few years to do t…

This is a mistake on the part of Arch. The Python team intended that "python" would be the canonical name for the Python 2 binary, with "python3" used where Python 3 was intended.

Re: Python: language moratorium is lifted

#18

Post by yummyfajitas »

dalke wrote: post #17
anonymoushn wrote: post #10

This is somewhat disappointing. Python's lack of full-fledged coroutines is most of what keeps me using Lua.

And you don't want to use Stackless Python because ... ?

I was going to suggest that Stackless is dead, given that I haven't heard any news about it.

But that would have been foolish of me: http://zope.stackless.com/Members/rmtew/News%20Archive/3.1.3

Re: Python: language moratorium is lifted

#19

Post by orlandu63 »

JeremyBanks wrote: post #16
jedbrown wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps my biggest complaint is that until recently, Python-2.x releases were not packaged with an executable named "python2", thus during the transition to Python-3.x, there is no safe way to specify which major version your script requires in the shebang. Arch Linux is already using version 3 for /usr/bin/python so any third-party scripts that require version 2 are broken. Other distros may wait a few years to do t…

This is a mistake on the part of Arch. The Python team intended that "python" would be the canonical name for the Python 2 binary, with "python3" used where Python 3 was intended.

Have you any citations to back up that statement?

Re: Python: language moratorium is lifted

#20

Post by jnoller »

orlandu63 wrote: post #19
JeremyBanks wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a mistake on the part of Arch. The Python team intended that "python" would be the canonical name for the Python 2 binary, with "python3" used where Python 3 was intended.

Have you any citations to back up that statement?

It's been hashed out over years on the Python-dev list.
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