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The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

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Re: The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

#21
post #5

A few points (disclaimer: I work at Google on projects including App Engine) 1) It's not fair at all to say that Google "continue to ignore the two critical issues of uptime and data store latency". The HR datastore is specifically designed to address the concerns about variable latency of datastore operations, and to prevent both planned and unplanned downtime. 2) In my experience, high CPU cost for datastore operat…

One annoying issue with the HR datastore is the appids have a 's~' prefix which can lead to strange behaviors when setting up domains via google apps and other jankiness.

Six month roadmap?

Re: The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

#22
post #5

A few points (disclaimer: I work at Google on projects including App Engine) 1) It's not fair at all to say that Google "continue to ignore the two critical issues of uptime and data store latency". The HR datastore is specifically designed to address the concerns about variable latency of datastore operations, and to prevent both planned and unplanned downtime. 2) In my experience, high CPU cost for datastore operat…

One annoying issue with the HR datastore is the appids have a 's~' prefix which can lead to strange behaviors when setting up domains via google apps and other jankiness. Six month roadmap?

http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/roadmap.html

The 's~' prefix as an internal detail isn't going to go away, but we're trying to smooth out any of the situations where you have to see/deal with it.

Re: The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

#23
post #15
post #9

Can someone provide some enlightenment about why one would migrate away from GAE? I only ask because I'm currently building an a web application on GAE and am starting to look down the road, wondering if building on GAE will allow us to grow as a business in the ways we want to, or if there are some arbitrary limitations that will come to bite us later. (knowing of course that we're more or less tied to Google's infr…

The original article does point out a few reasons, but the way I see it is this: AE is great if you want to scale and your app can scale in the AE way. There is a sweet spot and the tools work pretty well if you're in that sweet spot, but if you stray outside that spot you don't have a lot of options. Even getting your data out can be difficult, making the "export data and start over" nuclear option difficult. If you…

Another way of saying the same thing is that GAE is perfectly fine if you know all the requirements of your app before you build it. In a perfect world, you know exactly what you want to build, everything you want is available with GAE, then you go build it and it scales nicely.

In the real world however, requirements change: * You come up with a new idea that requires a certain library. Chances are, the library won't work on GAE out of the box. * You find out that you need to change your schema. It is pretty hard to update to the new schema while keeping everything in sync.

Finally, you pay the Google cost. When Google implements a new feature, they spend enormous time making sure that it scales well. They need to do so since they could be looking at millions of users on day 1. Most of us however, are looking to build something as cheap as we can, not knowing whether anyone is going to bother to look at it. However, you have to do the same performance optimizations that Google has to do so that your app scales. Chances are, it will be wasted effort - unless your objective is to just learn. I find it funny that GAE goes completely against the rule that "Premature Optimization is the root of all evil". Yes, you should think about your application's scalability. But your bigger problem should be about finding traction, and being able to react fast, not optimize for millions of views.

Re: The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

#24
post #3

I've been a heavy App Engine user since the beta days -- even gave a talk at I|O 2009 about scaling with App Engine. I have clients that run complex GAE sites that handle millions of daily requests. I somewhat disagree with the author about scalability. There is a very narrow sweet spot of apps for which App Engine is a quite natural solution. If you're in the sweet spot, you'll probably scale well without too much u…

at google io 2010 they discussed "next gen" queries in depth, which should be able to do geospatial queries easily (or any query for which your search space can be filled by a space filling curve):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofhEyDBpngM

we still haven't seen any of these improvements. in fact, they took it off the roadmap without any explanation.

Re: The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

#25
post #2

I found that the AppEngine 1.4 SDK addressed many of these concerns. Personally, I've managed 50 requests per second on my blog without trouble, and with minimal CPU overhead. That's probably because everything is in memcache, so the database almost never gets hit. The pricing structure seems to actively encourage you to memcache as much as possible, too. Things are probably pretty different in a more write-intensive…

Which blogging engine do you use and how much do you pay? I'm looking to migrate my blog to GAE too. Also, how's the latency?

Re: The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

#26
"4) The GAE design patterns in python are ugly. I find our current Sinatra-based implementation cleaner and easier to understand. Python + django is verbose, its templating system is obtuse, and its testing framework is, well, I don't know because I've never seen it. This point is a religious one, so I'll leave it be"

Should Python programmers write the unofficial guide to migrating off of heroku?

Re: The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

#27
post #5

A few points (disclaimer: I work at Google on projects including App Engine) 1) It's not fair at all to say that Google "continue to ignore the two critical issues of uptime and data store latency". The HR datastore is specifically designed to address the concerns about variable latency of datastore operations, and to prevent both planned and unplanned downtime. 2) In my experience, high CPU cost for datastore operat…

[deleted]

Re: The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

#28
post #5

A few points (disclaimer: I work at Google on projects including App Engine) 1) It's not fair at all to say that Google "continue to ignore the two critical issues of uptime and data store latency". The HR datastore is specifically designed to address the concerns about variable latency of datastore operations, and to prevent both planned and unplanned downtime. 2) In my experience, high CPU cost for datastore operat…

[deleted]

Re: The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

#29
post #5

A few points (disclaimer: I work at Google on projects including App Engine) 1) It's not fair at all to say that Google "continue to ignore the two critical issues of uptime and data store latency". The HR datastore is specifically designed to address the concerns about variable latency of datastore operations, and to prevent both planned and unplanned downtime. 2) In my experience, high CPU cost for datastore operat…

I am building everything on AppEngine atm. Initially it was just to prototype but I am thinking of launching a preview release of one app live

Can you talk about how big some of the larger customer apps are and how much traffic/uers they serve?

It would be easier for ppl in a position like mine to make decisions about AppEngine if there were big examples/case studies to point to in the same way Amazon, Heroku, Rackspace etc. do

Re: The Unofficial Guide to Migrating Off of Google App Engine

#30
post #9

Can someone provide some enlightenment about why one would migrate away from GAE? I only ask because I'm currently building an a web application on GAE and am starting to look down the road, wondering if building on GAE will allow us to grow as a business in the ways we want to, or if there are some arbitrary limitations that will come to bite us later. (knowing of course that we're more or less tied to Google's infr…

For my app the real problem with GAE is high cost.
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