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Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

globalhealthnow.org

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Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#51

Post by hijodelsol »

felipemnoa wrote: post #31
DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #29

This may be a stupid question. But can the antibodies be synthesized based on samples from recovered patients? If not, why?

Following your train of thought, could the synthesis be done in the same way that insulin is currently created? i.e. Have some germs synthesize the antibodies.

Yes, that’s a possibility and currently many monoclonal antibodies are produced that way (basically all drugs ending in “-mab”). However the process is costly and current capacities are not sufficient to supply a whole population regularly with antibodies which is why we still use some older drugs for certain diseases (think MTX for rheumatoid arthritis) and reserve monoclonal antibodies for treatment-resistant cases. I hope that it’ll be possible to protect high risk HCW and ICU patients through antibodies and thereby bring down Covid’s mortality soonish but we still need to buy some time until then and work on a vaccine to protect the population long-term. Right now what we need to do is stay at home and invest in medical care and drug development but with emphasis on the staying at home part because it’s the necessary condition for everything else to work.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#52

Post by mtsr »

DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #29

This may be a stupid question. But can the antibodies be synthesized based on samples from recovered patients? If not, why?

A monoclonal antibody (-mab) already existed in a lab in the Netherlands, because it had been developed for SARS and turned out to work for SARS-CoV-2. But it will take weeks before this can be industrialized, let alone approved.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#53

Post by hnick »

vkou wrote: post #46
_bxg1 wrote: post #41

This crisis is the first event in my lifetime that's given me any optimism about our ability, as a global civilization, to solve problems and get things done. I don't feel like we've seen humanity at its best in several decades. Shame it always takes a catastrophe (and an immediate one at that; see climate change) to bring it out.

> This crisis is the first event in my lifetime that's given me any optimism about our ability, as a global civilization, to solve problems and get things done. Based on what? What I see is the same scenario play out over and over again, from one country to another, delayed by a week, or two, or three, with most of them making the same mistakes that their predecessors made. Nobody in the West lifted a finger to prepa…

Too little too late sums it up in Australia. Schools are still open (there are good reasons, but by the time those reasons become not-good, it will be too late).

At least the states and cities are taking over leadership where the federal level has failed.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#54

Post by freepor »

ars wrote: post #40
DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #29

This may be a stupid question. But can the antibodies be synthesized based on samples from recovered patients? If not, why?

That's basically what a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoclonal_antibody is - and those are by far the most expensive drugs there are, with costs in the $100,000/person range.

What would the costs look like if the market scaled up by 1000 or 10000x?

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#55

Post by acqq »

freepor wrote: post #54
ars wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's basically what a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoclonal_antibody is - and those are by far the most expensive drugs there are, with costs in the $100,000/person range.

What would the costs look like if the market scaled up by 1000 or 10000x?

The cost comes from the nonscalability of both the production and the use.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#56

Post by baxtr »

ehsankia wrote: post #42
_bxg1 wrote: post #41

This crisis is the first event in my lifetime that's given me any optimism about our ability, as a global civilization, to solve problems and get things done. I don't feel like we've seen humanity at its best in several decades. Shame it always takes a catastrophe (and an immediate one at that; see climate change) to bring it out.

I think it has the potential to, but so far, there hasn't really much of it, or have I been missing it? Obviously progress is slow, but I think there's also a lot of fluff being thrown around, so we won't really know for some time. I haven't noticed any extra amount of cooperation though between countries, more so than the usual.

Yeah, I agree, unfortunately. Best examples: To my best knowledge no other European country has pledged massive help to Italy. China did a bit.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#57

Post by IAmEveryone »

baxtr wrote: post #56
ehsankia wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has the potential to, but so far, there hasn't really much of it, or have I been missing it? Obviously progress is slow, but I think there's also a lot of fluff being thrown around, so we won't really know for some time. I haven't noticed any extra amount of cooperation though between countries, more so than the usual.

Yeah, I agree, unfortunately. Best examples: To my best knowledge no other European country has pledged massive help to Italy. China did a bit.

Germany has sent a few hundred thousand masks and other equipment. But it’s obviously easier for China since they are past their peak.

There are also some French patients being treated across the border, in both Switzerland and Germany.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#58

Post by ArnoVW »

baxtr wrote: post #56
ehsankia wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has the potential to, but so far, there hasn't really much of it, or have I been missing it? Obviously progress is slow, but I think there's also a lot of fluff being thrown around, so we won't really know for some time. I haven't noticed any extra amount of cooperation though between countries, more so than the usual.

Yeah, I agree, unfortunately. Best examples: To my best knowledge no other European country has pledged massive help to Italy. China did a bit.

While this is true, I wonder if this is not partly because the European countries were quite busy organising themselves and were anticipating an urgent but unknown need for their own population.

China has a retrospective of three months and has stabilized the situation. They know what they are facing and the resources needed, and have even started to dismantle the temporary hospitals they set up in January.

What can the individual European countries offer? They, like the Americans, have outsourced their production to China. Any masks, nurses or respirators they have, they will need themselves. They can offer 'money', which may not buy more masks but can help against the economic impacts.

And this is what is happening. The EU has both released monetary aids, and indicated that fiscal restraint rules will be waived.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#59

Post by baxtr »

ArnoVW wrote: post #58
baxtr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree, unfortunately. Best examples: To my best knowledge no other European country has pledged massive help to Italy. China did a bit.

While this is true, I wonder if this is not partly because the European countries were quite busy organising themselves and were anticipating an urgent but unknown need for their own population. China has a retrospective of three months and has stabilized the situation. They know what they are facing and the resources needed, and have even started to dismantle the temporary hospitals they set up in January. What can…

You are probably right. I think they could have sent at least doctors and nurses to prepare for their own epidemic.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#60

Post by IAmEveryone »

_bxg1 wrote: post #41

This crisis is the first event in my lifetime that's given me any optimism about our ability, as a global civilization, to solve problems and get things done. I don't feel like we've seen humanity at its best in several decades. Shame it always takes a catastrophe (and an immediate one at that; see climate change) to bring it out.

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