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Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

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31–40 of 207 posts

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#31

This may be a stupid question. But can the antibodies be synthesized based on samples from recovered patients? If not, why?

Following your train of thought, could the synthesis be done in the same way that insulin is currently created? i.e. Have some germs synthesize the antibodies.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#32

This may be a stupid question. But can the antibodies be synthesized based on samples from recovered patients? If not, why?

Not stupid. NOTE: Not my field, so speaking off basic knowledge here. Happy to be corrected.

Tl;dr: because biology at scale is complicated.

Longer-form, because antibodies and immunological response are somewhat complicated. Knowing what an antibody looks like, how to produce it, and how to scale that production in a safe and reliable way are all very different things.

Older article, but general concepts: http://neobiolab.com/research/in-vitro-and-in-vivo-productio...

... And because the in vivo methods we know of are ethically dicey. To rephrase it in rough terms -- creating custom cancers that produce the thing we want and giving them to mice, then harvesting concentrated antibodies from the tumors.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybridoma_technology

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#33

This may be a stupid question. But can the antibodies be synthesized based on samples from recovered patients? If not, why?

Yes, and there are companies working on exactly this. Abcellera is furthest along: https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/lilly-taps-abcellera-t...

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#34

This may be a stupid question. But can the antibodies be synthesized based on samples from recovered patients? If not, why?

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/research/fast-moving-regeneron...

>Regeneron scientists have isolated hundreds of neutralizing antibodies against the SARS-CoV-2 virus from a humanized mouse model as well as from humans who have recovered from COVID-19, the company said Tuesday.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#35

This may be a stupid question. But can the antibodies be synthesized based on samples from recovered patients? If not, why?

Yes. Synthetic antibodies are a thing, but they are very expensive and very hard to produce (from what I inderstand).

Using animals when possible (for example horses, for the production of snake venom antidotes) seems more efficient in cost, volume and time.

Take for instance this crisis. They just need the plasma of immune individuals to give temporary immunity to sick or at risk individuals. It doesn’t scale but it works.

Some good basic reads:

Antigens - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigen

Humoral Inmunity -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humoral_immunity

Synthetic antibodies -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_antibody

Antibodies memetic - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody_mimetic

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#36
post #27
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain? On the surface this all sounds great, then again, on the surface a lot of things sound great. Especially looking for clarity around this part: Are there side-effects to using this? Plasma is very safe. It is screened for bloodborne pathogens and blood typed so you don't have a transfusion reaction. Blood transfusion is one of the most regulated industries in the United States. It's one of the…

> Plasma is very safe. It is screened for bloodborne pathogens For those we know. In some countries with centralized organizations handling transfusions, both HIV and hepatis were spread before they knew to test them -- then even after they learned. People sued for willful poisoning in Europe, as there was documented evidence the persons taking the decision were told about the risks yet decided to ignore them against…

That was a huge failure on [1] the Canadian Red Cross. They knew the blood was tainted but wanted to use up existing supply. They were buying blood from prisoner populations, didn't bother to do testing that would have detected most of the Hepatitis C cases, and infected more then 2000 Canadians with HIV. This was a giant screw up I have heard many times because back just before it went public the doctors wanted to give my dad a transfusion for a massive cut he sustained at work. He refused saying no way he trusts the blood. It was just a gut feeling. The doctor said he was making a foolish decision. Two weeks later it was all over the paper. So of course my dad took the paper to his next doctors appointment to get his stitches out and asked the doctor what he thought of his decision now. [1]: https://www.cbc.ca/strombo/news/canadas-tainted-blood-scanda...

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#37

This may be a stupid question. But can the antibodies be synthesized based on samples from recovered patients? If not, why?

Protein synthesis is complicated. Antivenom is still produced in the same way: inject an animal with small doses of venom, collect the antibodies from the plasma.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivenom

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#38
I don't see why people think we will hold out 18 months for a vaccine to be developed and tested, society would fall apart by then. I don't see it lasting longer than 2-3 months quarantine and then the common people will just go out anyway, especially in the USA where there's not much of a safety net.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#39
post #3

While viable and potentially lifesaving, the risks associated with this type of treatment are significant and should not be downplayed. Edit: This is the line I am objecting to: “ it can be used for prevention of infection for people who are being exposed or it could be used for therapy for those who are sick.” This is not something to generally be handing out to people after simple exposure. For one thing the benifi…

That doesn't make sense at all. It will be limited though and probably only be available to the most ill and front line medical people, there's simply not enough people to provide the plasma especially if it's voluntary.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#40

This may be a stupid question. But can the antibodies be synthesized based on samples from recovered patients? If not, why?

That's basically what a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoclonal_antibody is - and those are by far the most expensive drugs there are, with costs in the $100,000/person range.
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