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Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

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Re: Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

#51
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, with those numbers (and if 1M is the total globally), then we “lose” almost as badly to the seasonal flu, every year. I’m not saying we shouldn’t care about deadly illnesses. But the world is a dangerous place, and we’ve been pretty bad about changing that, historically. Also, if we ruin 5 million lives to save (some percent of) 1 million, is that worth it? How about ruining 50 million lives? We can sa…

What's the name of this fallacy? 1. "New thing X puts us at risk of losing Y lives every day." 2. "We lose Y lives to car accidents every day". 3. "Ergo, X is harmless!" You now have 2Y lives lost every day.

That’s not even close to what I’m saying. How did you read my comment and understand it as that??

Re: Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

#52
post #48
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The South Korean testing has been quite extensive, and not just limited to the people with the most obvious symptoms unlike in the west. Given they appears to have contained the virus without resorting to a full lockdown, it seems unlikely they would have missed a large number of cases. If they had, those asymptomatic or mild cases should be constantly restarting the chain of transmission. 1.1% of their cases have di…

> If [South Korea] had [missed a large number of cases], those asymptomatic or mild cases should be constantly restarting the chain of transmission. If enough people have already recovered from mild or asymptomatic cases (it would have to be a pretty hefty percentage, granted) then that, combined with not-total-lockdown conditions, could bring down the R0 value enough to cause the same result. Do you think it’s much…

> If enough people have already recovered from mild or asymptomatic cases (it would have to be a pretty hefty percentage, granted) then that, combined with not-total-lockdown conditions, could bring down the R0 value enough to cause the same result.

They're reporting basically no new cases at this point. For that to happen naturally, they'd need to have gotten like 2/3rds of the population infected. And it's quite hard to see how that could be true.

Korea had the most comprehensive testing (320k tests, available to basically anyone with even mild symptoms). They have so far confirmed infections in 0.02% of the population, and only got positive results in less than 3% of the tests. It's hard to believe that 60-70% of the population got infected, but even in the skewed sample of people who got tested only 3% being positive.

Compare that with something like Switzerland where the number of confirmed cases is at 0.08% of the population despite worse test coverage (basically only get tested if your symptoms warrant hospitalization), and there's no sign of it slowing down yet.

Or Spain which has 3x the cases of Korea on a similar population, has a health care system that's melting down, and where more than 55% of the tests are positive.

If herd immunity provided by all the undetected cases protected Korea, why is it not kicking in anywhere else even once their infection rates are obviously higher?

> Do you think it’s much more likely that the virus has been totally contained?

"Totally contained" is an exaggeration, since they are still finding new cases. But given how long the infection rate has been stable, it does look like they've managed to reach a R0 of almost exactly 1 with the aggressive testing + tracing strategy.

The only alternative that's at all plausible is that the Korean numbers are being fudged somehow, and they actually have a lot more cases than are being reported. But then why aren't the hospitals in a crisis unlike in other affected regions?

Re: Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

#53
post #52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If [South Korea] had [missed a large number of cases], those asymptomatic or mild cases should be constantly restarting the chain of transmission. If enough people have already recovered from mild or asymptomatic cases (it would have to be a pretty hefty percentage, granted) then that, combined with not-total-lockdown conditions, could bring down the R0 value enough to cause the same result. Do you think it’s much…

> If enough people have already recovered from mild or asymptomatic cases (it would have to be a pretty hefty percentage, granted) then that, combined with not-total-lockdown conditions, could bring down the R0 value enough to cause the same result. They're reporting basically no new cases at this point. For that to happen naturally, they'd need to have gotten like 2/3rds of the population infected. And it's quite ha…

> They're reporting basically no new cases at this point.

It’s like 50-100 new cases every day, looks like. I’m getting out of my depth with what exactly that allows us to rule out, but it sounds like “constantly restarting the chain of transmission” might be the actual reality?

If that drops further, then maybe these new cases are just the ones that incubated longer instead?

Re: Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

#54
post #53
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If enough people have already recovered from mild or asymptomatic cases (it would have to be a pretty hefty percentage, granted) then that, combined with not-total-lockdown conditions, could bring down the R0 value enough to cause the same result. They're reporting basically no new cases at this point. For that to happen naturally, they'd need to have gotten like 2/3rds of the population infected. And it's quite ha…

> They're reporting basically no new cases at this point. It’s like 50-100 new cases every day, looks like. I’m getting out of my depth with what exactly that allows us to rule out, but it sounds like “constantly restarting the chain of transmission” might be the actual reality? If that drops further, then maybe these new cases are just the ones that incubated longer instead?

> it sounds like “constantly restarting the chain of transmission” might be the actual reality?

Yes, but it's a tiny number of undetected cases restarting the chain, and those chains being detected and lopped off before they have time to go exponential. But it's just not possible that they have tens of thousands of undetected cases that are spreading the virus further. That'd spin out of control quickly.

Re: Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

#55
post #46
post #7

Unrelated - is there a term for exhaustion of opinions? I swear you could go into any HN comment thread related to this outbreak and it breaks down to; Person A saying X is going to happen and then Person B saying Y is going to happen and then Person C saying that No! Z is going to happen! How did everyone get so opinionated about something so unpredictable and unprecedented? In any case I think we should all calm do…

My family is unemployed right now, an opinion has to be formed, then we are all kept indoors. I foresee continued growing pains

But how can we form an opinion while shouting at each other? We know what the answer is; and it’s called sharing. Unfortunately nobody seems to want to entertain this idea.

Re: Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

#56
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of right now, Italy’s fatality rate is almost 9% [0], so saying “it might not be within an order of magnitude of 0.6%!” is optimistic to the point of delusional. [0]: https://mobile.twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/12414116867...

Italy is looking like a “perfect storm” tragedy no matter what. The older population, combined with rapid, widespread transmission, to the point where critical cases completely overwhelm the health infrastructure, is absolutely a recipe for horrible CFR numbers like that. The fear that healthcare infrastructure elsewhere could be overwhelmed by another sudden outbreak is really the only reason experts are freaking ou…

> Also just reported today, apparently over 99% of fatalities in Italy were folks who had existing medical conditions, but I have no idea what that really tells us.

Not a lot, without knowing the number with existing medical conditions among the infected population. How many over-70s don't have any existing medeical condition?

Re: Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

#57
post #4

This is bullshit. As but one example of the guy’s cluelessness: the curve of (new) infections over time is not a bell curve . The shape is roughly similar. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the normal distribution.

Farr's Law says otherwise: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22farr%27s+law%22 .

Oh, also: try to fit a bell curve on the AIDS epidemic and see how “Farr” you get.

Re: Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

#58
This article has been censored by Medium. Can't say I'm surprised as it goes against the official hysteria promoting big pharma narrative. This is what I now get:

410 This post is under investigation or was found in violation of the Medium Rules.

--

It is archived here: http://archive.md/yuaUq

Re: Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

#59
Funny How many caught the flu? and is testing positive for Corona the same as having Ebola or Leprosy ? or will you be sick for a week and recover like we normally do from the flu>? Keep in mind more people have died in the U.S. from seasonal, common flu than has died World Wide from this 'epidemic'. (Which started in the most populous country so listening to the pundits it should have had 100s' of millions deaths!) How is that possible?

Re: Evidence over Hysteria – Covid-19

#60
post #58

This article has been censored by Medium. Can't say I'm surprised as it goes against the official hysteria promoting big pharma narrative. This is what I now get: 410 This post is under investigation or was found in violation of the Medium Rules. -- It is archived here: http://archive.md/yuaUq

It also has been torn-apart by numerous people with way more credibility. e.g. https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1241522140559503360
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