Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers

#161

Post by mardifoufs » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

OrangeUnicorn12 wrote: post #122

bdefore wrote: post #21

Glad to see this from Amazon, although I see it heading off the inevitable. Wouldn't this be the most powerful moment for employees in 'essential' services to engage in worker strikes? Is there any legal precedent for what governments would do? With all this war rhetoric thrown around, it seems a reasonable jump to declare essential workers troops on the frontline deserving of what we give other troops (free health c…

... whatever Amazon does, it is always "however", "although" and "but" on HN People, please get real. You all are running (or dreaming of) your own small business. How much of payrise are you willing to give your workforce now? This news is pure win for workers, consumers and amazon.

As much as Amazon is willing to pay for? Why do you assume Amazon is just being benevolent? I'm all for capitalism but this is what capitalism is, the workers don't have to just be happy with whatever Amazon throws at them, they can negotiate

I guess a good question would be "How much of a profit can Amazon make now?". The answer is as much as the market is willing to give, and that's the same for the workers' salary.

Re: Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers

#162

Post by chiefalchemist » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 10:26 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #152

asdff wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any good financial manager would have went cash or established a short position. Even if you held, as long as you don't realize your losses you will be right back to pre crash levels in 2-3 years, just like in 2008 or any other recession. The wealthy have the capital to take advantage of the stock market, but are also insulated from the effects of downturns due to diversified financial investments and cash on hand. R…

Real people lost a lot of real money. Bear in mind most of the wealth of most well off people is held in shares. It's just not possible that all shareholders all sold before the crash. A lot of people lost a lot of money. The problem is not so much that some rich people are now somewhat less rich. Boo hoo. Let's rephrase that another way though. A lot of people that previously had the wealth and assets to invest in n…

Or employee ownership is allowed to expand as a means to grow a biz. True, that won't fill all the gaps. But it's certainly an option worthy of more attention.

Re: Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers

#163

Post by mardifoufs » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

stevenhuang wrote: post #129

dehrmann wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When the bailouts for so many others are happening I don't disagree that the support for, say, airlines, are bailouts, but the connotation that word has from 2008-2009 mischaracterizes what's going on right now. When this all blows over, you absolutely want airlines ready for business. Letting heavily impacted businesses fail is a recipe for a depression.

Airlines deserve no sympathy from how they've spent 90% of free cash flow over the years buying back their own stocks. Now when times are tough they have no cash reserves and are seeking government bailouts. Just appalling.

Even if they saved literally every penny of profit made in the last 5 years, including buybacks, the most profitable airline would've had 4 (now closer to 3) months of cash reserves in a situation like this one. Is it really reasonable to expect a corporation to plan for every black swan like this and just totally ignore shareholders? Why would anyone be a shareholder if it means not getting anything when times are good and lose value when times get harder?

But I'm against airlines getting bailed out. It's a huge moral hazard imo to just remove the risks of investing in... a risky sector. Bankruptcy courts should deal with this and lenders should take the hit too. Still, blaming this on share buybacks doesn't make a lot of sense... A corporation hoarding money is bad.

Re: Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers

#164

Post by ColonelSanders » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 10:33 PM UTC

I hope all these raises, unemployment resources, remote work and collectivization measures stick around after. Flexibility is great.

What has all this coronavirus action made me feel?

The virus effects everybody equally (generally there are age things in there)

We're all about austerity of social benefits, "I get mine". How did the wonders of the free market help when we were in trouble?

We don't share nearly enough. We criticize each other too much. We miss opportunities to improve the social system democratically because we fall for the intoxicating allure of being sidetracked by narrow groups pushing to get more, just for them. Enough to break up the vote to give us multi-pronged, layered, comprehensive, and fair social security. The nod to only help one group to spite everyone else draws ire, to keep the cycle repeating as an emotional back and forth. Every time. We don't fix the statutes.

I hope anything that doles out benefits universally sticks around and becomes normal in life, after this.

I hope after this labor and health policies get more generous. Way more generous. And value people for being human beings, without preferential treatment based on who is most this or that. Raise the bar for all natural persons.

Re: Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers

#165

Post by dillondoyle » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 10:36 PM UTC

bdefore wrote: post #21

Glad to see this from Amazon, although I see it heading off the inevitable. Wouldn't this be the most powerful moment for employees in 'essential' services to engage in worker strikes? Is there any legal precedent for what governments would do? With all this war rhetoric thrown around, it seems a reasonable jump to declare essential workers troops on the frontline deserving of what we give other troops (free health c…

The nurse union has had a small amount of success with just the threat. Unfortunately there isn't a lot to give them. Even time is limited with a shrinking ceiling on staff as they sit two weeks out with symptoms.

Re: Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers

#166

Post by abrowne » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #149

Apocryphon wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happened in World War II, and that’s why health insurance in the U.S. is tied to employers.

Could you expand on this bit of history please?

The Real Reason the U.S. Has Employer-Sponsored Health Insurance: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/upshot/the-real-reason-th...

Re: Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers

#167

Post by xxpor » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #139

xxpor wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state of education in this country about the history of the labor movement is seriously depressing. I'm sure that's intentional though.

No, it’s covered. You might just be shocked to learn that children don’t really care about collective bargaining history anymore than the dates of important battles in WW2.

We covered the Triangle Shirtwaist fire, the muckrakers, and Roosevelt's war against trusts, but I don't ever recall hearing the name Eugene Debs, or say the Haymarket massacre.

Re: Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers

#168

Post by c3534l » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

hker wrote: post #156

c3534l wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Calvin Coolidge said "there is no right to strike against the public safety." People can organize all they want, but they can't conspire to harm people, holding lives up as not-that-metaphorical hostages in a negotiation. It's the idea of yelling fire in a crowded theater. Putting people's lives in danger for literal personal profit would be a sure-fire way to turn people against unionization.

Interesting. What about “strike for the public safety”? Performing a strike to achieve a goal for public safety, such as, when the government of a city decided, against public opinion, not to close the border even when bordering a large country with lots of infected patients, some essential workers decided to go on strike to demand the close of the border? Even more interestingly, if the essential workers are themsel…

That's somewhat ingenious. I sometimes hear about walkouts when a company has some military contract - I bet that would be a good time to unionize; make ending the contract part of deal.

Re: Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers

#169

Post by TomVDB » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 11:12 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #94

mhb wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it better to get some stock instead of its cash equivalent which could be used to buy stock?

The stock was purchased at an 80% discount. To be clear, it was a stock option, and the option price was 20% of the stock price. So it had to go up 20% to break even. But if it went up 40% you doubled your money. This is basically what happens behind the scenes at other companies that offer you stock compensation in the form of options. It's just all hidden from you.

the option price was 20% of the stock price.

20% off the stock price?

Re: Amazon raises overtime pay for warehouse workers

#170

Post by jshevek » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 11:12 PM UTC

bdefore wrote: post #21

Glad to see this from Amazon, although I see it heading off the inevitable. Wouldn't this be the most powerful moment for employees in 'essential' services to engage in worker strikes? Is there any legal precedent for what governments would do? With all this war rhetoric thrown around, it seems a reasonable jump to declare essential workers troops on the frontline deserving of what we give other troops (free health c…

>Wouldn't this be the most powerful moment for employees in 'essential' services to engage in worker strikes?

Many would have no sympathy for workers exploiting a crisis like this.