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Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

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Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#181
post #43

Alexa et al are also normalizing "always on microphone that sends audio to a remote business over the internet" technology . According to the bright-line rule from Kyllo v United States [1], when a technology is "in general public use"[2], police no longer need a warrant when they use their own devices based on that technology to see the "details of a private home that would previously have been unknowable without ph…

> [3] The ruling[1], 2nd paragraph

You cited the summary, which may be useful but isn’t legally binding. The actual opinion starts after “Justice Scalia delivered the opinion of the Court.”

Also, Kyllo isn’t relevant to your concerns. A microphone and radio which picks up audio and transmits it is a technology which has been around for more than 60 years. Use of that technology has been addressed by the court in Katz and its predecessors, which collectively found that warrantless use by the police of such tech is often prohibited by the fourth amendment.

A more relevant question is whether the fourth amendment would allow police to access records stored by Amazon in the case of conversations picked up by Alexa devices. Usually, such data is fair game (third-party doctrine), but there are some constitutional restrictions (See e.g., *Carpenter v. U.S., 2018). However, even if there were no restrictions, the question is probably moot because other laws (Wiretap Act, Stored Communications Act) restrict police behavior. Basically everyone believes that these restrictions apply to Alexa recordings.

Recently there was a case in which a police department served Amazon with a subpoena for Alexa recordings from the scene of a suspected murder. I don’t remember the outcome in that case, but that too is irrelevant to concerns about warrantless collecting or searching of Alexa data, because there a warrant was or could have been obtained.

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The performance of such a system would be bad compared to an internet connected one (frequent speech model updates and more compute) and the reviews would pillory the device for a nebulous to most privacy (unseen) vs. performance (seen) trade off. Try using a slightly older (early 00s) car with voice commands to get a sense.

You can separate the recognition system of the speech model by allowing software updates but not send the data or the captured audio to the cloud.

Couldn't a software update then change that behavior to send the data to the cloud?

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#184

It's a very reasonable concern. I used to have a Google Assistant in my home office. I've muted the mic and just use it as a Bluetooth speaker. However, the much bigger concern should be your phone, which has a mic, is internet connected, and almost always listening. You need to also disable the Google Assistant, Sciri, etc. there too. Oh, and that doesn't just go for your home. That's in the office, at a client, on…

How did you mute the microphone? Through the software, which is controlled over the network, or with judicious application from a screwdriver? The latter would be the only way I would trust.

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#186
post #174
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you turn Siri off, it doesn't activate by accident, and the iPhone still works as intended. If you turn off Alexa, the home assistant doesn't activate by accident because it doesn't work at all.

You can turn it on each time you need too use it, maybe with a trusted voice activated power switch that isn't connected to the cloud.

At that point why bother getting it in the first place? The whole appeal of it is that you can just say "hey google" from anywhere in the house and it would answer you. If you have to walk over and turn it on, you might as well use your phone.

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#187
post #135
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? The ruling is about agents using thermal imaging technology to bust a marijuana plantation, performed from a car on a public street. The court stated that this does not constitute a search, since any random citizen could've done the same thing using commodity equipment. Always on microphones that transmit via the internet (i.e. bugs) have been a commodity for... a few decades? But you still cannot legally bug…

>Always on microphones that transmit via the internet (i.e. bugs) have been a commodity for... a few decades? But you still cannot legally bug your neighbor's apartment. It has not been normal until the last few years for people to typically have an Alexa-like device that is always listening for the "I'm about to make a request" signal, which frequently gets turned on by accident. It's not ridiculous that someone mig…

>It has not been normal until the last few years for people to typically have an Alexa-like device that is always listening for the "I'm about to make a request" signal, which frequently gets turned on by accident.

Google Now: 2012 Siri: 2010 Microphones in cell phones: longer than those two.

It hasn't only been a few years.

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#188
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Always on microphones that transmit via the internet (i.e. bugs) have been a commodity for... a few decades? But you still cannot legally bug your neighbor's apartment. It has not been normal until the last few years for people to typically have an Alexa-like device that is always listening for the "I'm about to make a request" signal, which frequently gets turned on by accident. It's not ridiculous that someone mig…

>It has not been normal until the last few years for people to typically have an Alexa-like device that is always listening for the "I'm about to make a request" signal, which frequently gets turned on by accident. Google Now: 2012 Siri: 2010 Microphones in cell phones: longer than those two. It hasn't only been a few years.

I’m referring to voice activated assistants, and I was referring to the case when the typical (middle class) household had one, which happened long after their initial release (and arguably hasn’t even happened yet, depending on how you define “typical”).

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#189
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has not been normal until the last few years for people to typically have an Alexa-like device that is always listening for the "I'm about to make a request" signal, which frequently gets turned on by accident. Google Now: 2012 Siri: 2010 Microphones in cell phones: longer than those two. It hasn't only been a few years.

I’m referring to voice activated assistants, and I was referring to the case when the typical (middle class) household had one, which happened long after their initial release (and arguably hasn’t even happened yet, depending on how you define “typical”).

Siri and Google now are both voice activated. Who wasn't using Android or iOS when they launched?

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#190
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My laptop has a microphone and video. Surely Microsoft could just start recording with the with right windows update? It's a commonly mentioned issue, and a somewhat regular occurrence with various malware or "security solutions". That's why a number of laptops have either visual indicators or shutters (though mostly for the cameras, sadly hot mics are rarely a consideration), and a rare few have physical disconnec…

Macbooks since 2018 physically disable microphones and webcams when the lid is closed: https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-macbook-air-and-2018-m...

That would be a big reason to get a MacBook for the first time ever.
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