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Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

japantimes.co.jp

161–170 of 430 posts

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#161
post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

a few random points to consider: - Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam all in much warmer climate. - hot spots in Italy and Japan are likewise in the northern region: Lombardy in Italy and Hokkaido in Japan. - wearing masks during a global pandemic isn't apparently as fashionable in Japan. - many Japanese elderly, or over 30K per year, die unnoticed in solitude. so it might take a while to catch up. But on the othe…

And even _in_ China, cases per capita are not that high (lower than most of Western Europe). In _Wuhan_ is another matter, of course.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#162
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don’t need a mask unless you are sick. For protection you need a mask and glasses, but keeping your hands clean and away from your face does 95% of the job. Except you do, because carriers without symptoms are contagious and the main drivers of this pandemic. And no, coronavirus doesn't have wings, they are carried by water droplets, and any sort of barrier that can stop water droplets is better than no barrier…

If you’re truly asymptomatic then you wouldn’t be coughing.

There are lots of other things that can cause coughs, especially now that spring allergies are starting to kick in.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#163
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the textile industry has moved to Asia in the last 30 years.

This is such an important point and so widely misunderstood. I feel like most Americans, when talking about the loss of US manufacturing, think of Ohio, Indiana, and other "rust belt" states, when the reality is, a huge amount of textile production centering on the east coast, from furniture manufacturing in North Carolina, to paper mills and cotton processing down to Atlanta, is gone. My working theory is that it's…

The states are important because they're swing states, and coal is important only because of what it represents about identity and messaging.

A lot of the rust belt was blue when Democrats focused their messaging heavily on workers protections.

People in the rust belt only have a few strong political priorities:

1. Their communities have watched their quality of living decline gradually over 40+ years now as industry and manufacturing in the US have become less competitive. They want jobs in their community, specifically ones they envision their community as capable of doing. Many of them take advantage of government benefits, and whether or not they are personally able to work or have a job, they know their community was better off when they had jobs.

2. Their population skews older and has more traditional ideas about social issues, but the rust belt is not the bible belt. Church attendance across the rust belt is very average compared to other states. Most aren't looking to push their beliefs on anyone else, but they don't see progressive social policies as something they personally want or need.

3. After long periods of decline, they don't trust promises. Many of them have grown poorer after every national election in their lifetime, as they've watched the rest of the country become more prosperous. For those growing up, success is measured by whether or not you 'made it out'. When someone promises them prosperity, they learned it's not for them, it's for everyone else.

4. While they don't trust politicians, they also don't trust businesses. They've had a front row seat view of what it means for businesses to chew people up and spit them out. They were heavily pro-union.... when they or their parents had jobs. Now many are questioning themselves, did unions help us or cause our jobs to disappear?

These people aren't policy experts or economists. They're working-class people with working-class educations and working-class expectations for themselves.

Whether or not Democratic platform policies would actually help them, the rest of the image of the Democratic platform rubs them the wrong way so much that it doesn't matter. Many of them voted blue for years, only to now feel like the party has passed them by and now only cares about the social and economic needs of people living on the coasts.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#164
So far the places that have held up well (Singapore, China, Japan, South Korea) have a culture that favors masks.

In Hubei, you would be arrested if you were out without one (this may have lapsed now).

There may be other cultural/demographic/political aspects, but this seems key. Japan, in many ways, handled the crisis poorly. And yet they're still doing ok.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#165
post #82
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To elaborate, yes Japanese are pretty clean by nature and do have social distancing naturally, but everyone is still taking the subway, the government has not cracked down much. Ubiquitous wearing of masks is the only really unique thing i can think of. (Actually even now not everyone is wearing them, but its still a good percentage and as soon as Japanese feel sick they wear masks) So I’ve come to the conclusion tha…

Riding the subway doesn't make you sick. Not washing your hands and then touching your face with hands that have the virus from touching parts of the train makes you sick. You can't touch your face much if you have a mask on it. The virus doesn't just float around in the air. It only exists in water particles that fall quickly onto surfaces.

Citation? Everything I've read contradicts that: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmissi...

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#167
I'll offer one hypothesis and a quick explanation.

Iodine. The Japaese have a high iodine content in their diet. I'm taking 10x the US RDA. Some have suggested this is the reason for lower breast cancer rates there (no time to cover all that here and now).

I read about Iodine years ago, and followed some doctors suggestions that it can help asthma. My asthma is effectively gone and my last PFT showed my lungs function better than average for my age. I haven't touched an inhaler in years.

Since we are dealing with a respiratory virus, I figure anything that helps the lungs is probably a good thing.

For some fun reading you might want to read about the relationship of iodine and: cancer, lungs, mitochondria, apoptosis, breast cancer, asthma, type 2 diabetes, heart disease and any number of thyroid problems.

If you think Iodine is only good for the thyroid gland, I suggest reading about the sodium-iodine-symporter and which tissues have it.

Anyway, I had already thought about this when it seemed Japan's death rate from covid-19 was lower.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#168
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. The U.S. response is absurd. I went grocery shopping the other day, and despite clear evidence of panic (empty shelves, hurried shoppers, long lines), but not a single person wore a mask. Somehow, everyone is too scared to go to work, but not scared enough to wear a mask. We're on course for the worst depression in history because we don't…

I don't think anybody has masks to wear even if they'd like to. I certainly don't. The US surgeon general was also adamantly advising people not to buy masks over the past month. At this point, any and all masks are being redirected to hospitals, as there is a critical shortage. Paint shops in my local area have donated their entire supply to the local hospital -- the health department is encouraging people to hand s…

I actually have two old FFP1 R rated masks in my closet from the past two pollen seasons. Since I only used them during the pollen season, they're probably still okay. But I haven't been wearing them recently, since the effectiveness of them hasn't really been clear. There's really also the stigma of being a leper, although that didn't really stop me during the pollen season.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#169

Personally, and this is my opinion without any evidence to back it up. I believe that this is just a combination of several factors: - Japan acted sooner than most by closing schools, tightening their borders, informing their citizens and asking for their cooperation. - Japan's culture is a big factor, people respect and obey their government in general, the use of masks is common place, practicing social distancing…

Consider this:

To date, have you observed any other countries and governments undertesting? And if so, was it for reasons other than the Olympics?

That gives you a baseline of disincentives to report.

Now extend: - what would the cost (financial, reputational, etc) be to Japan the government if the Olympics do not go ahead? - might there be other disincentives for Japan to undertest relative to its neighbours?

Also recall, in some cases a little bit of disincentive mixed with poor planning/incompetence leads to a lot of unplanned underreporting :)

The trick in all cases is to look for a metric that governments have not thought to obscure/or cannot control that strongly signal the thing you’re trying to verify.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#170
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent some time in Japan for work and was always amazed how many people had face masks on (even when there is no pandemic) and the prevalent of wearing gloves (driving etc). With my limited time there it seemed to be one of the most proactively sanitary cultures I’ve seen. Also it seemed to me that at business meetings generally people bow instead of shaking hands. And I wonder if this reflects the general approach…

I think this is the case. Japanese (and other East Asians) already have a pre-existing mask culture. Wearing a mask is normal over there and is encouraged. They also do not hug, shake hands and have body contact with does that are not family or close friends. Another big factor is that they tend to follow the rules unlike in Italy or America where social distancing suggestions were not taken seriously by a large chun…

The social distancing suggestions (laws) in Italy have been taken extremely seriously. It is effectively voluntary, so there are some people who flaunt the rules. But people went from kissing everyone to never getting I think people in Italy feel that the quarantine isn't working because it's not strong enough. And people around the world kind of expect Italians not to take it seriously. Actually, it doesn't work except to decrease the exponent on the growth of the epidemic. In China, with a much stronger lockdown, they had the same R0 as we have in Italy now ~1.25 until they started moving people who were symptomatic or had contact with positive COVID cases to hotels and, if serious, field hospitals and ICUs. We have to do the same or it will sweep through the entire population.
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