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Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

bloomberg.com

161–170 of 215 posts

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#161
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? The ruling is about agents using thermal imaging technology to bust a marijuana plantation, performed from a car on a public street. The court stated that this does not constitute a search, since any random citizen could've done the same thing using commodity equipment. Always on microphones that transmit via the internet (i.e. bugs) have been a commodity for... a few decades? But you still cannot legally bug…

Well by this theory a search shouldn't be a search either because any group of private citizens could stage a home invasion using guns.

That would be illegal for other reasons, which would seem at least to me to violate the principal they are using to justify this. Certainly using a thermal camera in this manner is not illegal for a random bystander.

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#162
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's only done on a targeted basis to people who are being monitored. Your location history however is being passively tracked. Except Amazon was caught with their hands in the cookie jar listening on 'regular' people's private conversations on more than one occasion.

Can you share more details?

A quick search online yields the following [1] with an associated discussion on HN [2].

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-10/is-anyone... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19629513

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#163

Why "Locked-down" in the title? It's pointless.

They gave all the context required to share it without the connection "Lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls" requires. This could be telling of Bloomberg's expected/desired readership.

Or, they wanted an alliterative title.

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#164
post #143
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only things in my pocket are my wallet and keys. My phone[1] could probably be used for remote surveillance, but without a warrant, that's a crime. Note: intent and expectations matter. A cellphone by itself (without any type of "voice assistant" app or feature) is only intended to record audio when it's being used to make a call. Yes, malicious actors or buggy software could enable the microphone, but that's not…

> My phone[1] could probably be used for remote surveillance, but without a warrant, that's a crime. That's a neat phone, but we already know pretty much all phone communications are intercepted and recorded. This is why I do all of my communications over IPoAC[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers

That's all fine and well, but you're still susceptible to a stool pigeon attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3xU0fnjUcg

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#165
post #128

My girlfriend celebrates passover which involves discussing "Elijah". The way she pronounces that name (she's a New Yorker) triggers her Alexa device, to much hilarity. More soberly: I had no idea what Elija stands for so I asked the device, which recited part of the wikipedia. It then said, "while I have your attention here are some notifications you missed" and began to recite the first of her messages from her wor…

"Alexa, order a bouncy castle", if all things are setup, you may have just spent $200 on a nice toy for children.

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#166
post #107
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one who cares about privacy would turn that on.

Maybe you do care but your significant other or roommate doesn't (and doesn't want to understand because... inconvenient). Thank Google / Amazon for creating drama where none existed.

Maybe you do care but your significant other or roommate doesn't (and doesn't want to understand because... inconvenient).

This is possibly the biggest single problem with modern surveillance/privacy culture. The idea of requiring an individual's consent to something that is potentially a risk for them is laudable, but it's also largely a symbolic gesture when some of the largest and most powerful organisations in the world are duping all of their friends into providing much the same information without their consent or even necessarily their knowledge anyway. The whole business model is fundamentally flawed, and privacy laws are a long way from catching up.

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#167
post #107
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one who cares about privacy would turn that on.

Maybe you do care but your significant other or roommate doesn't (and doesn't want to understand because... inconvenient). Thank Google / Amazon for creating drama where none existed.

Choose friends and partners wisely. If your roommate is doing something to endanger you let them know or change roommates. What if they were doing hard drugs? Would you live under the fear of cops busting down the door?

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#168
post #148

I grew up in a communist dictatorship, where illegal wiretapping by the government is still an open wound in society's culture. Given that, I cannot understand who willingly buys this crap and puts it in their house. A couple of days ago, I lost all respect for a coworker when we were in a meeting and somebody said something which woke up the Echo he had on his desk.

Do you carry a smart phone? Does it not have a microphone designed to have hands free conversations and pick up audio from a distance? Does it have the ability to constantly track your location? Does it contain most of your private, electronic communication?

If we're talking about illegal wiretapping, a smart phone is significantly more risky and problematic than a smart speaker.

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#169
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well by this theory a search shouldn't be a search either because any group of private citizens could stage a home invasion using guns.

That would be illegal for other reasons, which would seem at least to me to violate the principal they are using to justify this. Certainly using a thermal camera in this manner is not illegal for a random bystander.

are you sure? I mean I think in most states, if you were parked outside a person's house with a thermal camera pointed at the house, and the police drove up and asked what you were doing and you said "I'm using my thermal camera to spy on what people are doing in that house, and they don't know I'm doing it LOL!" I think the police would probably take you in.

Now as to whether they could find anything to charge you with that would stick that would depend on if the state had any sort of peeping tom laws, and if the police went up to the house and found if anyone was naked or partially naked in the house while the thermal camera was being used.

That said if there was a peeping tom law, and there was a naked person, the party with the camera that was charged could then argue that thermal cameras don't show enough to be considered under the law.

However it is my experience that police can be creative when they want to charge someone when that someone is doing something they don't like, so not sure that just a peeping tom law would be brought into play on such a circumstance.

I suppose after all this you might argue that police overreach does not make it actually illegal, but in general my viewpoint is that something being illegal is determined by power and in the case under discussion the court wanted what the police did not to be illegal because they felt it benefited the power of the system that it be so, and therefore shaped their arguments to their wants, not to any particular logic or moral sense. Thus when later another court wants the people on the street using the tech to be illegal, power gets what it wants.

Re: Locked-down lawyers warned Alexa is hearing confidential calls

#170
post #53
post #43

Alexa et al are also normalizing "always on microphone that sends audio to a remote business over the internet" technology . According to the bright-line rule from Kyllo v United States [1], when a technology is "in general public use"[2], police no longer need a warrant when they use their own devices based on that technology to see the "details of a private home that would previously have been unknowable without ph…

How so? The ruling is about agents using thermal imaging technology to bust a marijuana plantation, performed from a car on a public street. The court stated that this does not constitute a search, since any random citizen could've done the same thing using commodity equipment. Always on microphones that transmit via the internet (i.e. bugs) have been a commodity for... a few decades? But you still cannot legally bug…

> But you still cannot legally bug your neighbor's apartment.

You... not. But the police? Issue a warrant and they don't even have to risk, as in the decades before, having a spy physically break in to the building or the target discovering the bug.

Secret services (CIA/NSA) probably even have their direct uplink to Amazon or at least under-the-tables cooperations established to snoop on foreign people "for antiterror reasons" (aka helping out allied services, just like with the BND and MI5 with snooping on global Internet traffic).

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