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Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

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Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#121

Post by [deleted] »

chmod775 wrote: post #80
ravenstine wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, I wish people would stop popping into discussions about coronavirus to say " Actually, ... ". Most educated people know that viruses aren't alive in the traditional sense. People who aren't as educated simply don't care, and I don't blame them. Using the more scientifically precise term helps nobody, except scientists, in this situation. Should software engineers stop using the word "kill" in POSIX-land…

> Respectfully, I wish people would stop popping into discussions about coronavirus to say "Actually, ...". I answered his question while also correcting a minor mistake. Also I'm not sure what you're quoting there. > Most educated people know that viruses aren't alive in the traditional sense. People who aren't as educated simply don't care, and I don't blame them. Are you trying to insult your grandparent? Most peo…

[deleted]

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#122

Post by mnm1 »

quartzite wrote: post #27
ZhuanXia wrote: post #15

China has half the world’s manufacturing ability, a civil service selected strongly for cognitive ability, a much more diligent and capable people, and a large population. Not to mention experience in pandemics of this type. China will become zeroth world shortly. We will have to get used to them surpassing us.

How can China become zeroth world shortly when half of the country is still living in third world conditions? I suppose if you only consider how the wealthiest in Shanghai and other Tier 1 cities live their lives then yes China is approaching parity with the West but that ignores that America's per capita income is almost 5 times higher than China's. China also has the nasty problem of many of its best and brightest…

The same way the US is considered first world with half of its population living in poverty, a third or more without proper healthcare, almost one percent in prison, etc.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#123

Post by joostdecock »

GordonS wrote: post #12
ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

I think if you're going to make a post like this, it's reasonable to expect that you present some actual evidence, or is your whole argument that we should ignore evidence? "Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective" is hardly a compelling case.

I run freesewing.org, the website linked to in the Forbes article (1). The university hospital here in Antwerp where I live is actively reaching out to the community asking them to make masks. (2) I'm not a scientist, but here's something that I can do, so I'm trying to help. I trust the doctors, that's good enough for me.

(1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/tjmccue/2020/03/20/calling-all-... (2) https://www.uza.be/mondmaskers. (in Dutch)

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#124

Post by leetcrew »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #115
leetcrew wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people were saying this about the USSR in the 1930s (see beyond the urals by john scott). it's always faster to catch up than to break new ground. their rate of progress will slow dramatically as they approach the state of the art.

Not with over 1 billion people and the western world on its knees. If anything, their going to progress far faster than anyone else once this is over.

maybe, maybe not. it's impossible to say. developing new stuff is a very different game from catching up, especially when you get to manufacture mid-tech stuff for the west and take a loose interpretation of intellectual property. as a state, china currently seems much more able to direct its resources towards worthwhile endeavors than the US, but afaik they are still pretty far behind when it comes to cutting-edge stuff. the new j-20 fighter isn't a match for the f-22, let alone the f-35. they can't touch the level of US silicon fabs without annexing taiwan. I've read some convincing arguments that it may have an edge in cyberespionage/warfare, but it's always hard to judge those capabilities.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#125

Post by darkerside »

ravenstine wrote: post #63
chmod775 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was looking for information on (high) killing viruses They're not really alive, so they can't be killed. But you can destroy vital parts of them and make them unable to reproduce. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_%28biochemistry%2...

Respectfully, I wish people would stop popping into discussions about coronavirus to say " Actually, ... ". Most educated people know that viruses aren't alive in the traditional sense. People who aren't as educated simply don't care, and I don't blame them. Using the more scientifically precise term helps nobody, except scientists, in this situation. Should software engineers stop using the word "kill" in POSIX-land…

I didn't bat an eye at this until you dropped in with a "Respectfully..." that sounded awfully insincere. Did your sentence really intend to convey respect? Because it came off as disingenuous.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#126

Post by notfromhere »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #62
usaar333 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? "R0 is not a biological constant for a pathogen as it is also affected by other factors such as environmental conditions and the behaviour of the infected population."

Pretty way of saying "Summer heat causes these things to go in remission" by lowering the R0 for a time.

Given that there are cases in hot, humid climates now, I wouldn’t expect summer to save us

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#127

Post by aaavl2821 »

ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

That is a misleading statement. The CDC has in fact changed its recommendations to recommend in a crises, even HCPs use home-made masks [0]

Health care providers, scientists and health officials are rapidly changing and adapting to the situation. It probably is a good idea for all people to wear homemade / improvised masks to reduce R0

But I'd still hope that civilians with large stores of N95 masks or other PPE would consider donating them to healthcare workers. The optimal scenario seems to be that non-HCPs stay home as much as possible, wash hands, sanitize and wear improvised masks when leaving home, and donate PPE to healthcare workers

9% of COVID-19 cases in italy are HCPs

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/f...

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#128

Post by bmn__ »

f0ok wrote: post #35
GordonS wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you're going to make a post like this, it's reasonable to expect that you present some actual evidence, or is your whole argument that we should ignore evidence? "Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective" is hardly a compelling case.

Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population. Marianne van der Sande. 2008. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0002618

https://sci-hub.tw/10.1371/journal.pone.0002618

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#129

Post by sjg007 »

bamboozled wrote: post #2

“Health-care facilities don’t remotely have the supplies that would allow staff members to see every patient with all that gear on.“ As the article states, China had that ability. If that statement is true, It’s amazing to me that this is something China can do and not the U.S.A. The country that put man on the moon not even a century ago! Incredible. I feel like there are a lot of acquisitions lately that go on abou…

The ICU videos out of Wuhan have the doctors wearing triple PPE.

China has a lot of experience with SARs and other respiratory viruses. They are basically ground zero right.. so I would expect people to listen to China when they say you need masks.

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