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Apple is looking for engineers to convert its code from C to Rust

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Re: Apple is looking for engineers to convert its code from C to Rust

#121

Post by ckcheng »

OJFord wrote: post #87
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well glad I live in California! I’m a college drop out and all self taught. Not a member of any associations. Happily doing lots of great engineering here in the states!

I don't know the details for Canada specifically, but I doubt not having a degree precludes you from registration - generally having one just expedites it. I'd encourage you not to discount professional bodies as irrelevant, or incapable of becoming more relevant, our industry could benefit from it in many ways - perhaps most frequently on-topic on HN is the ethical and whistle-blowing aspect. Also plenty of professi…

Not having a degree precludes registration... in fact, the degree must be from an engineering society accredited program, to ensure you get enough hours in front of a P.Eng prof or lecturer, among other things, I think.

One Canadian university's Comp Sci dept. started offering Software Engineering program one time and it ended up in a lawsuit the outcome of which is... complicated.

Canada is, I feel, very... lot of red tape.

The traditional term "engineer" isn't even a very good description of software dev anyway.

Software dev people should just make a new word up and abandon "Engineer".

Re: Apple is looking for engineers to convert its code from C to Rust

#123

Post by simonh »

z3phyr wrote: post #118
jacquesm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a 'mindshare' game. D had its chance, now Rust has its chance. Would have been cool though if D had caught on more back in the day. Re-invention seems to be impossible to avoid in the software world.

> D had its chance What is stopping people to download a D compiler and write software in it right now?

Nothing. The problem is, by and large they don’t. D is a fantastic project and an important step forward, but Rust has won the mind share game.

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019

Re: Apple is looking for engineers to convert its code from C to Rust

#124

Post by simonh »

softwarejosh wrote: post #108
jacquesm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't solidified for the same reason that C++ in many ways still hasn't solidified. Software is a very young industry by many standards and we still haven't found the best way to make it. Rust is one way to do it, but there are many others besides, in the end which tool wins out is less important than that we make some progress and get out of the tar-pit that we've been stuck in for the last two decades. All we s…

idk man, people can dish out complicated, hard tested, reliable systems in a really short time. most aspects of most languages have been severely altered and improved...

Sure, we’ve made huge progress, and are still making huge progress, but it’s just not enough.

Re: Apple is looking for engineers to convert its code from C to Rust

#125

Post by ckcheng »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #112
dijit wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because it's _weird_. Protected titles seem to have differing meanings in many places. Doctor is a pretty universally understood one; yet we throw around "Architect" pretty willy nilly and it's a protected title in many more countries than Canada. Yet somehow Canada gets special consideration and other countries do not. For context: I work for a French company, and we have many Architects despite that being…

I have been told that this in fact is only really an issue in Quebec. I am not a lawyer, but, I don't believe it's an actual issue elsewhere in Canada.

In Alberta too. No surprise really. Both Quebec and Alberta (also Ontario) have LOTS [1] of political influence from traditional engineering companies.

You know, not that long ago in Alberta, you could use "Software Engineer" without a P.Eng license.

Then the engineering society (APEGA) sued someone (Raymond Merhej) who did that [2]. But Raymond won in the courts.

So APEGA appealed. But Raymond won the appeal in the courts too.

So APEGA lobbied the Alberta Government to change the laws.

And APEGA won.

[1] An example from Quebec: SNC-Lavalin affair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNC-Lavalin_affair ).

And from Alberta: "Kenney’s United Conservatives were elected last April on a promise to focus on oil and gas and bring jobs back to Alberta by reducing the corporate income tax rate and red tape" (Alberta government files red ink budget with focus on oil and gas, https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/news/government/2020... )

[2] https://www.itbusiness.ca/news/it-industry-wins-round-in-eng...

Re: Apple is looking for engineers to convert its code from C to Rust

#126

Post by MR4D »

etimberg wrote: post #41
MegaButts wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the definition for engineer? Anything that isn't software; ie electrical, mechanical, nuclear? Or does it just mean you passed the FE exam?

Need a degree from an accredited school in engineering + pass the engineering licensing requirements. In Ontario, where I live, that means passing an ethics exam + some years of work that is overseen by someone with a P.Eng. The challenge in software is usually the last part.

Oddly, this doesn’t apply for the railroad. [0]

[0] - https://www.canadianbusiness.com/lists-and-rankings/best-job...

Re: Apple is looking for engineers to convert its code from C to Rust

#128

Post by glouwbug »

marta_morena_23 wrote: post #120
WalterBright wrote: post #8

D now has an Ownership/Borrowing system implemented (though it is in its early stages). It will work with existing code, including DasBetterC code. You're able to incrementally adapt a program to O/B rather than rewrite it.

D has failed long ago. It tried to be like C and in doing so essentially became another C++ over time. Nobody is going to invest into D and that is proven by adoption. The benefit is just too small... Rust does the right thing. It keeps C ABI compatibility but utterly throws everything else out of the window and starts fresh. If you have the need for Rust, go for it. Otherwise stick with C++. Simple as that. D has no…

You do understand that you're replying to the founder of D, right? Walter put his whole life into D. Can we please show a little compassion for someone's life's work?

Re: Apple is looking for engineers to convert its code from C to Rust

#129

Post by glouwbug »

damian_brody wrote: post #60
jacquesm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a 'mindshare' game. D had its chance, now Rust has its chance. Would have been cool though if D had caught on more back in the day. Re-invention seems to be impossible to avoid in the software world.

D missed the train because the creator(s) didn't open source it, instead they wanted to monetize it right away

I am sensing a lot of hostility in this thread and Walter Bright, the founder of D, is replying to direct accusations in this thread.

Mods?

What's going on HN?

Re: Apple is looking for engineers to convert its code from C to Rust

#130

Post by optimaton »

glouwbug wrote: post #128
marta_morena_23 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

D has failed long ago. It tried to be like C and in doing so essentially became another C++ over time. Nobody is going to invest into D and that is proven by adoption. The benefit is just too small... Rust does the right thing. It keeps C ABI compatibility but utterly throws everything else out of the window and starts fresh. If you have the need for Rust, go for it. Otherwise stick with C++. Simple as that. D has no…

You do understand that you're replying to the founder of D, right? Walter put his whole life into D. Can we please show a little compassion for someone's life's work?

I don’t think they do.

The response clearly is reasonable, but no reasonable person would say that on someone’s face. So I don’t think Marta _moreno really knew about Walter

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