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Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

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Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#171

How long do we expect shelter in place to last?

if we can trust the imperial college of london, the next 12-18 months will have 2/3rd of their time in lockdown.

I think that model assumes everyone goes right back to 'normal' as soon as lockdown is lifted. China and South Korea are both using regulations and surveillance to try to keep r0 below 1 while out of lockdown.

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#172
post #148
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It simply isn't possible to shut down the economy and then pay people, businesses to sit idle for an undetermined amount of time. Why not? This is a matter of survival. If the economic system breaks because of one pandemic that will last less than a year maybe that economic system needs to die and be replaced by something more solid and useful for most.

It's not about abstract "economic system". Let me put it in simple word: you'll loose your job. Your friends and family will loose their jobs. As a result, when your savings run out, you'll loose your appartement. And so will your friends and family. You won't be able to afford food without government assistance. And even if shutdown lasts only 30 days, it'll wreck the economy for a long time. Once a restaurant defau…

You cannot imagine an economic system where the default state of a human being is to become destitute?

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes two weeks for symptoms to show up.

Ok, so where are the cases from 2 weeks ago?

In Michigan (where I live and so am paying attention), there were 80 positive tests reported as of Wednesday and there are now 549 positive tests reported.

The cases from 2 weeks ago are seeking medical care.

I'm slightly optimistic, testing has ramped up the last few days with a large spike instead of an unimaginable one, and we will get a clearer picture as they start broadening the criteria.

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#174

The stock market is largely collapsing because: 1.) Hedge funds levered up their capital 5 - 15x to make more money, then got caught with their pants down. So they all panic sold at once, crashing the market. 2.) CEOs of large corporations used cash to buy back their stock, inflating the stock price, and depleting their cash reserves. So now those same companies are on the brink of collapse, causing the credit market…

1) the stock market is collapsing because business cashflows are collapsing 2) the collapse has barely begun

Business cashflows aren't collapsing, not yet. Big businesses aren't corner shops, they don't get paid one small transaction at a time. They typically have contracts that are quarterly or yearly. Give it a few quarters though and they'll be hurting

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Yorker here. From what I see through my window, my fellow New Yorkers still don’t “get it”. I see clusters of people hanging out and families going for leisurely walks. If this keeps up the number of infections - and deaths - will only increase. Last week my brother suggested instead of working from home I work from a Starbucks. I feel like people don’t understand how serious this is and it’s really bothering me.

I'm more sanguine. I live on a busy Brooklyn street which is normally packed with people shoulder to shoulder during the day, and I will see maybe 5-10 people on the block at what should be the busiest time. I think it's like a 90%-95% reduction which is certainly substantial enough to quench the spread enough to reduce the shock hospitals are receiving. Doing my part (I have asthma), I haven't left the apartment sin…

But for how long? The stricter the quarantine the longer we have to quarantine to reduce spread. That's the problem. Best estimate is we can reduce daily interactions by 70%, for the next 12-18 months.

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#176
post #129
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowhere have you seen numbers that remotely approach 1-3%. You’ve seen the critical, largely elderly population get tested and from that you get that number that’s freaking people out. Stop spreading panic. With those kinds of numbers China alone would have 10M+ dead. In Japan, Singapore, surrounding nations more millions dead. Use a bit more common sense. We know we haven’t tested enough in the US, yet we don’t have…

4 dead and 3 more in critical condition from a single family: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-shatters-ne... 26 dead at the washington nursing home, 50 tested positive: https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-deaths-washingto... Death rates by preexisting condition: https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2020-03/13/2... America has 42% obesity rate and a huge population with diabetes and…

Question for OP: does this data change your mind? If not, what would?

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#177

It's articles like this that really make me facepalm, shake my head and say "this isn't about whether America could survive this". America is the last of our concern. Almost ALL of the other countries on planet Earth have orders of magnitude LESS resources (in every sense of the word) than we do. Think about how likely those countries aren't going to fall into chaos. Their governments aren't equipped to deal with thi…

Part of the benefit of living in America is the fact America will put it's citizens first, no? I fail to see how putting the rest of the world before our own countrymen could at all work. To many, that would be viewed as betraying countrymen if we didn't handle it here first. I'd even posit that an America that's contained and controlled COVID-19 is better for the world than one that's not.

I'm _not_ saying we shouldn't help the rest of the world. That's the very next thing. I'm saying, let's make sure we're not drowning before trying to help others not drown.

This is a really weird line of reasoning because I don't think it even holds in the case of a broader unity.

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#178

Better solution: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YbtJGn7ida2IYNgwCFk3Sjhs... We can shelter-in-place as long as needed. And no businesses go under, and no one loses their home.

> First, we pause all fixed financial obligations, which are what’s crushing our economy right now. Right now, we’re in a crunch: people can’t work, and so they can’t make payments on mortgages and rents. Totally agree, it is insane that some families are under the threat of eviction because they live paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford to pay rent now. Same for small businesses who cannot afford to pay rent. I'm…

It isn't about landlords doing the "right thing". Landlords have debt to pay, generally aren't sitting on mountains of free cash, and foreclosure of the property you are renting is functionally similar to eviction.

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#179

It's articles like this that really make me facepalm, shake my head and say "this isn't about whether America could survive this". America is the last of our concern. Almost ALL of the other countries on planet Earth have orders of magnitude LESS resources (in every sense of the word) than we do. Think about how likely those countries aren't going to fall into chaos. Their governments aren't equipped to deal with thi…

[deleted]

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#180
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about abstract "economic system". Let me put it in simple word: you'll loose your job. Your friends and family will loose their jobs. As a result, when your savings run out, you'll loose your appartement. And so will your friends and family. You won't be able to afford food without government assistance. And even if shutdown lasts only 30 days, it'll wreck the economy for a long time. Once a restaurant defau…

You cannot imagine an economic system where the default state of a human being is to become destitute?

People are going to be destitute if nobody is producing goods and services. Money is worthless if there's nothing to buy.
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