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The US health care wait times myth

theincidentaleconomist.com

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Re: The US health care wait times myth

#41

Post by phjohnst »

dean wrote: post #21

That first graph is interesting. I would like to see their definition of "wait time when sick". Since the article separately mentions waiting to see specialists, and elective surgery, I'm going to assume wait times in the graph do not include these. When we talk about wait times in Canada, most people mean the amount of time they have to wait when they walk in to a hospital or clinic, without an appointment. In other…

Yeah, I can't believe that more people above aren't asking this question.

From my experience in the Canadian system, if you're really sick (ie badly injured, have cancer, whatever) you actually get pretty quick service. Sure, if you walk into the ER with your kid that has a flu, you might have to wait a couple hours while they deal with the people that just got in a car accident, but I can live with that. And really, if you're chronically sick enough to still be sick in 6 days (and could wait that long, ie you didnt need to go to the ER) then the 6 day wait to see a GP is likely not going to make a big difference. (Must be noted, I've never had to wait 6 days to see my doctor when I was sick, more like 1-2, and could always just walk in if I needed to)

It really comes down to this: If you need help now you'll get help, free, right now. No questions.

Re: The US health care wait times myth

#42

Post by ronanz »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #8

Data point: I live in the USA, and I've got Crohn's disease. I take medicine for the chronic condition, which keeps it in remission 99%+ of the time. But when it flares up, I need to see a doctor pretty quick -- not just because it hurts, but also because the pain is an indication of bad things happening to my intestines. The thing is, I can't get an appointment to my GI doctor right now , or even tomorrow. So I can'…

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Re: The US health care wait times myth

#44

Post by leot »

maxharris wrote: post #18
CWuestefeld wrote: post #8

Data point: I live in the USA, and I've got Crohn's disease. I take medicine for the chronic condition, which keeps it in remission 99%+ of the time. But when it flares up, I need to see a doctor pretty quick -- not just because it hurts, but also because the pain is an indication of bad things happening to my intestines. The thing is, I can't get an appointment to my GI doctor right now , or even tomorrow. So I can'…

So I'm pointing the finger, at least in part, at the regulations here in the USA. By artificially controlling the number of doctors, and/or constraining our access to pharmaceuticals, we're creating the situation where I am unable to get the treatment I need. This has nothing to do with economics or even insurance company policies, really. It's all to do with nanny-state government. I agree with you! Here's some data…

  For the last 30 years, 16,000 new doctors are let through each year, 
  and this is very carefully regulated to keep guild members 
  rich. There's nothing wrong with that, but the problem is 
  that the government is used as a tool to maintain this 
  monopoly.
What? If the AMA is restricting the number of doctors in order to make more money, then there absolutely is something "wrong with that". You're stating as a premise that it is ok for doctors to act selfishly in a way that causes (or aggravates) harm. The sworn responsibility of an MD is to get us and keep us healthy.

Sure, it's also wrong if government is going against the public interest in restricting the number of doctors. But whether someone should be able to claim that they are a certified medical doctor is something I want government to regulate, at least for now. AFAIK, these regulations were put in place in response to quackery (and the like).

Re: The US health care wait times myth

#45

Post by josto »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #8

Data point: I live in the USA, and I've got Crohn's disease. I take medicine for the chronic condition, which keeps it in remission 99%+ of the time. But when it flares up, I need to see a doctor pretty quick -- not just because it hurts, but also because the pain is an indication of bad things happening to my intestines. The thing is, I can't get an appointment to my GI doctor right now , or even tomorrow. So I can'…

Im assuming you're in California? What health plan do you have? I know sometimes you can't get an appointment right away, but it really depends on the condition. I got diagnosed and needed surgery, and I don't go to the ER, but something called Urgent Care. Emergency is a nail in your head... But urgent care is for pain that needs to be dealth with.. ie - you took tylenol and advil, and it didnt work.

You should research Urgent Care centers through your health plan and have their address in your phone. That way, you can get the care you need in a timely manner.

I am so glad we have such good doctors, pharmacists, etc in California at least... they def are trying their best. It all just depends on the condition. If God forbid you get seriously ill, then you will get all the appointments you need. Yes there is usually some wait, but its not THAT bad.

Re: The US health care wait times myth

#46

Post by leot »

dalore wrote: post #23
CWuestefeld wrote: post #8

Data point: I live in the USA, and I've got Crohn's disease. I take medicine for the chronic condition, which keeps it in remission 99%+ of the time. But when it flares up, I need to see a doctor pretty quick -- not just because it hurts, but also because the pain is an indication of bad things happening to my intestines. The thing is, I can't get an appointment to my GI doctor right now , or even tomorrow. So I can'…

Wow, I live in the UK and when I need to see the doctor I just drop by with no appointment, wait my turn (depending on number of people in the surgery can take 10-60mins. Then the doctor sees me.

Likewise in Canada. I think the wait time numbers are higher because people are waiting to see "their" doctor. But there are lots of drop-in private clinics, and it is always "free" to visit them.

Re: The US health care wait times myth

#47

Post by georgieporgie »

btilly wrote: post #34
CWuestefeld wrote: post #8

Data point: I live in the USA, and I've got Crohn's disease. I take medicine for the chronic condition, which keeps it in remission 99%+ of the time. But when it flares up, I need to see a doctor pretty quick -- not just because it hurts, but also because the pain is an indication of bad things happening to my intestines. The thing is, I can't get an appointment to my GI doctor right now , or even tomorrow. So I can'…

Sorry for the digression. I have a friend with Crohn's disease who read all of the research on hookworm, found a company that would ship it to Canada, went to Canada, and got himself infected. Several months later he has managed to discontinue most of the drugs and he is feeling better than he has in years. Unfortunately hookworm has been classified as a medication in the USA, and is unpatentable, so will never be ap…

I heard about this on This American Life. Here's the link, it's in part 3: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/404/e...

Here's an article on the same guy, Jasper Lawrence: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/07/22/are-h...

Re: The US health care wait times myth

#48

Post by raganwald »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #29
raganwald wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we can conclude that they are not as important and/or as urgent as other factors, and only for those who are mobile. Between Canada and the US, for example, it is easiest to move if you are young, educated, and employable. So I might draw some conclusions about the lack of difference to those who are young, educated, and employable. I wouldn't assume that there's no difference for someone who is older, uneducat…

I wouldn't assume that there's no difference for someone who is older, uneducated, or unemployed, because the cross-border friction is WAY higher for them. You might be right, but I don't think you can simply assume it. For example, a well-educated, professionally employed person old enough to have an established family is highly immobile for those very reasons. Their jobs and their family ties are holding them in pl…

Are we in violent agreement? I said that I wouldn't assume because the friction is higher. I was thinking along the same lines as you, but perhaps I should have been explicit that I include factors like family ties and roots in the community as part of 'friction.'

Re: The US health care wait times myth

#49

Post by leot »

maxharris wrote: post #28
zaidf wrote: post #10

My siblings and I take a pill 3x day for life for a genetic condition. The pill(colchicine) cost pennies in its generic form. It isn't a pill that was made in a lab after millions in research. So there were plenty of generic brands available and it'd cost us 5 bucks/mo from Walmart. That was that. Last year a company came in and got an exclusive on it on the premise that they spent millions in testing the pill for qu…

This is the FDA's fault. Without the FDA, you would keep buying the generic you had been buying, and the company would keep making it for you. But with the FDA, a company can come in and essentially buy a monopoly on a market that would otherwise be free.

It sounds like you're saying "government is the problem". But nearly every other developed country doesn't have this problem.

Please, explain why government is the reason for why the US healthcare system is so much poorer than the healthcare system of countries in which there is far more government involvement.

Other countries show us that solution to bad government isn't the elimination of government. The solution is to fix what we've got.

Re: The US health care wait times myth

#50

Post by [deleted] »

jbooth wrote: post #16

Yeah, I mean I can understand the philosophical place that one could come from that would make one skeptical of government-run anything. But every other industrial nation beats the crap out of us both in results and in results per $$, while spending far less money. This isn't a theoretical argument -- we could just copy one of those systems wholesale and get way better results than we're getting. At one point does th…

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