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Is our fight against coronavirus worse than the disease?

nytimes.com

11–20 of 36 posts

Re: Is our fight against coronavirus worse than the disease?

#11
Yes.

Current approach is a disaster.

I would have asked most at risk population to self quarantine.

Cut on red tape for usage of antivirals. (Hydroxychloroquine a proven safe one said to work has been held back for weeks due to paperwork)

I would have even gone as far as requisitioning private companies to par for the lack of medical supplies and drugs.

The eroding of civil liberties some EU countries is experiencing is plain unacceptable.

Re: Is our fight against coronavirus worse than the disease?

#12
I am afraid that we will sacrifice (a LOT) and the same people will die anyway. Let's face it, maybe we'll extend their life by 7 weeks or so. Many are alive that to millions of dollars in medical support for their last years.

But then no country will just say, "let's let our people die." However, unless a vaccine is discovered soon enough or the virus miraculously is manageable, people will be very uneasy.

Re: Is our fight against coronavirus worse than the disease?

#13
post #10

Eh.... no... that's what Italy tried to do, (tried to stamp out clusters, while keeping everything the same and itdidn't work) Right now they are having massive casualties per day, to almost (if not more) than ww2, and there is no sign of slowing down yet. "Italy reports 5,986 new cases of coronavirus and 627 new deaths, raising total to 47,021 cases and 4,032 dead"

China should have reacted while it was there, before it spread to everywhere. But what's done is done.

By the way his point is that what happened in Italy is normal, old and frail people will die. No need to ruin everything to--maybe--extend their life for a few more years.

Pay old and sick people to quarantine?

-edit to add-- were saving x lives from Coronavirus at an enormous cost. How many others are dying because they can't get their current health issues dealt with in a normal manner due to the mobilization to fight this virus?

My guess is that a lot of people that normally would have lived, will now die from cancer, diabetes, heart issues etc etc.

Re: Is our fight against coronavirus worse than the disease?

#14
The simple fact of the matter is you can't have a significantly long lock down, that's not possible. If the economy truly fails we all go down. You think fighting over: toilet paper, hand sanitizer, respirators and testing kits is crazy? Wait till people are fighting over food, water and shelter.

Re: Is our fight against coronavirus worse than the disease?

#15
The clustering of complications and death from Covid-19 among the elderly and chronically ill, but not children (there have been only very rare deaths in children), suggests that we could achieve the crucial goals of social distancing — saving lives and not overwhelming our medical system — by preferentially protecting the medically frail and those over age 60, and in particular those over 70 and 80, from exposure.

Finally, some sanity.

The over 70 and chronically ill should be quarantined and provided with hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin, and the rest should "social distance" those at risk, but otherwise go about their business. That way the virus spreads quickly among the less at risk, they suffer no or minor symptoms, and develop herd immunity.

Re: Is our fight against coronavirus worse than the disease?

#17
post #4

This article is almost completely rhetoric, bereft of quantitative analysis and at odds with what the broader medical community has been saying. The New York Times really does let any credentialed dingus post shit on their website.

The root cause of this article seems to be that it's inconvenient having my adult kids in the house and how long must this go on.

The idea seems to be to somehow isolate at risk populations (the elderly, mostly) and resume business as usual. As pointed out by others, it's too late in the absence of a vaccine to do anything but try and reduce the infection rate, unless society decides to just let the cards fall where they may and sacrifice the old and sick.

How long it goes on would depend on the effectiveness of this strategy, and you can tell be monitoring the infection rate. China claims that it has essentially stopped new infections after ~3 months, so this doesn't seem like it will be an indefinite lockdown.

Re: Is our fight against coronavirus worse than the disease?

#18
post #10

Eh.... no... that's what Italy tried to do, (tried to stamp out clusters, while keeping everything the same and itdidn't work) Right now they are having massive casualties per day, to almost (if not more) than ww2, and there is no sign of slowing down yet. "Italy reports 5,986 new cases of coronavirus and 627 new deaths, raising total to 47,021 cases and 4,032 dead"

No, Italy's real issue is they're have the oldest population in Europe and the highest per/capita smokers in Europe. Since Covid-19 hits that demographic hardest (elderly with respiratory issues), they have the highest mortality rate. The average age of those dying from this in Italy is 80.

Re: Is our fight against coronavirus worse than the disease?

#19
One point that stood out to me as odd is that he says family units are clustering together and that's worse for the elderly/most at risk. He mentions students coming home from college but aren't they the only major group coming home that don't live there normally? If people live with their parents and grandparents then it seems to make sense that working to keep them from getting infected (ie - keeping K-12 students home, parents avoiding the work place) is a better course of action than sending them into school and work. If they've already moved away then they shouldn't be taking this time as a free vacation to see those people anyway. I'm not sure how you would protect those at risk people while keeping everyone else in their normal lives. Fill the hospital beds with them and don't let in the coronavirus infected?

Edit to add: US Population 65 years and over: 16.03% (male 22,678,235/female 28,376,817) (wikipedia)

Total Staffed Beds in All U.S. Hospitals: 924,107 (aha.org)

Re: Is our fight against coronavirus worse than the disease?

#20
post #10

Eh.... no... that's what Italy tried to do, (tried to stamp out clusters, while keeping everything the same and itdidn't work) Right now they are having massive casualties per day, to almost (if not more) than ww2, and there is no sign of slowing down yet. "Italy reports 5,986 new cases of coronavirus and 627 new deaths, raising total to 47,021 cases and 4,032 dead"

No, Italy's real issue is they're have the oldest population in Europe and the highest per/capita smokers in Europe. Since Covid-19 hits that demographic hardest (elderly with respiratory issues), they have the highest mortality rate. The average age of those dying from this in Italy is 80.

And a lot families living with parents, grandparents et Al.
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