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MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

mitadmissions.org

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Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#11

Post by askafriend »

yardie wrote: post #8

I used to think the SATs were fair. Until I found out how much money was being spent on SAT prep. And those expensive prep courses had the potential to increase scores over 100 points. I took the recommended SAT prep course through my high school. It was 2 weekends of going over material that might be on the exam and a workbook recommended by The College Board. Imagine my surprise going to university and meeting stud…

That's true, but at the same time it's a standardized test so anyone can replicate those prep courses. There's tons of prep books with practice questions, tips, etc.

It's a matter of awareness and taking it seriously (obviously a simplification, but hope you get my point).

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#12

Post by lainga »

krastanov wrote: post #6
codingslave wrote: post #5

Most of this is to obscure their admission criteria. Harvard has come under fire for actively discriminating against Asian applicants. By removing a standard test, these colleges can actively discriminate whilst making it more difficult to prove admissions bias from a numerical and arguably more objective standard.

They are removing the extra optional tests, not the main SAT test. Sounds great to me, as these extra tests just show you have the money to take them. Your comment is an unfounded opinion, please do not present it with the certainty of a fact.

The first sentence of GP was, but the second statement was fact, and the third a description of a plausible possibility.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#13

Post by Dalrymple »

This is indeed a strange decision for MIT. The conventional wisdom has long been that the SAT subject tests are MORE predictive of future success at MIT, because the influence of test prep, cramming, test coaches, etc. is minimal for the subject tests. While there are reports of people raising their scores artificially on the non-subject tests by hundreds of points through these short-term methods, the subjects tests have long had a reputation as being more representative of what you really know.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#14

Post by thaumasiotes »

askafriend wrote: post #11
yardie wrote: post #8

I used to think the SATs were fair. Until I found out how much money was being spent on SAT prep. And those expensive prep courses had the potential to increase scores over 100 points. I took the recommended SAT prep course through my high school. It was 2 weekends of going over material that might be on the exam and a workbook recommended by The College Board. Imagine my surprise going to university and meeting stud…

That's true, but at the same time it's a standardized test so anyone can replicate those prep courses. There's tons of prep books with practice questions, tips, etc. It's a matter of awareness and taking it seriously (obviously a simplification, but hope you get my point).

I mean, it's not really true. People spend a lot of money on test prep, but this isn't even a case where the evidence hasn't come in yet. We know perfectly well that test prep has negligible influence on SAT scores.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#15

Post by Symmetry »

yardie wrote: post #8

I used to think the SATs were fair. Until I found out how much money was being spent on SAT prep. And those expensive prep courses had the potential to increase scores over 100 points. I took the recommended SAT prep course through my high school. It was 2 weekends of going over material that might be on the exam and a workbook recommended by The College Board. Imagine my surprise going to university and meeting stud…

SAT prep courses advertise that they can increase scores by 100 points but generally they're lying in order to sell more test courses. But the real number is closer to "11 to 15 points on the math section and 6 to 9 points on the verbal."[1]

[1]https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228337033_Using_Lin...

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#16

Post by albntomat0 »

yardie wrote: post #8

I used to think the SATs were fair. Until I found out how much money was being spent on SAT prep. And those expensive prep courses had the potential to increase scores over 100 points. I took the recommended SAT prep course through my high school. It was 2 weekends of going over material that might be on the exam and a workbook recommended by The College Board. Imagine my surprise going to university and meeting stud…

How is that functionally different from most things considered by college admissions? Money helps a ton for normal class, extra-curriculars, etc.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#17

Post by nicoburns »

duckMuppet wrote: post #10
yardie wrote: post #8

I used to think the SATs were fair. Until I found out how much money was being spent on SAT prep. And those expensive prep courses had the potential to increase scores over 100 points. I took the recommended SAT prep course through my high school. It was 2 weekends of going over material that might be on the exam and a workbook recommended by The College Board. Imagine my surprise going to university and meeting stud…

Anyone can study the SAT prep books for free at a bookstore a few hours at a time daily. If your offended by that, what about professors or HS teachers who teach certain sections of the textbook because it's going to be on the exam. One can self-study the SAT prep book or self-study their biology book and in both cases can potentially be more knowledgeable than those who attended a formal university class or prep wor…

> If your offended by that, what about professors or HS teachers who teach certain sections of the textbook because it's going to be on the exam.

Yes, this another big problem caused by (too much emphasis on) standardised testing. I learnt the most in classes that didn't do this. But people do better on tests when they do do this. Standardised tests are destroying our education system.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#18

Post by realtalk_sp »

yardie wrote: post #8

I used to think the SATs were fair. Until I found out how much money was being spent on SAT prep. And those expensive prep courses had the potential to increase scores over 100 points. I took the recommended SAT prep course through my high school. It was 2 weekends of going over material that might be on the exam and a workbook recommended by The College Board. Imagine my surprise going to university and meeting stud…

While it's true that prep courses can help dramatically, the SAT subject tests are also not really that hard. I don't consider myself terribly smart (certainly not MIT level) and I managed to get an 800 on the Math II and 800 on Chemistry with a minimum of studying using pretty inexpensive books. This applied to many of my friends as well.

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#19

Post by thaumasiotes »

Dalrymple wrote: post #13

This is indeed a strange decision for MIT. The conventional wisdom has long been that the SAT subject tests are MORE predictive of future success at MIT, because the influence of test prep, cramming, test coaches, etc. is minimal for the subject tests. While there are reports of people raising their scores artificially on the non-subject tests by hundreds of points through these short-term methods, the subjects tests…

> The conventional wisdom has long been that the SAT subject tests are MORE predictive of future success at MIT, because the influence of test prep, cramming, test coaches, etc. is minimal for the subject tests.

Who cares what the conventional wisdom says? The psychometric results are that SAT I scores and SAT II scores predict performance about equally well in isolation and don't have more predictive value in combination than they do in isolation. In other words, they measure exactly the same thing.

(Contrast the other major predictor, high school GPA, where the predictive value of considering GPA + SAT in combination somewhat exceeds the predictive value of either metric individually.)

Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions

#20

Post by aliston »

yardie wrote: post #8

I used to think the SATs were fair. Until I found out how much money was being spent on SAT prep. And those expensive prep courses had the potential to increase scores over 100 points. I took the recommended SAT prep course through my high school. It was 2 weekends of going over material that might be on the exam and a workbook recommended by The College Board. Imagine my surprise going to university and meeting stud…

The real scandal that I can't believe hasn't gotten more attention is that wealthy families are hiring psychologists to claim their child has a learning disability. They can then get more time to take the test and due to a policy change a few years ago, this information is hidden from the schools when students report their scores.
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