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Risky hack could double access to ventilators

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Re: Risky hack could double access to ventilators

#82

If some untested and unapproved method like this is used and something goes wrong, I would image that being a huge liability problem. Good on them for trying to save human lives, but our legal system does not always reward the ethical behavior.

I would hope that our legal systems account for the context in which these actions occur. It feels like a larger version of the Good Samaritan Act. They might do harm but they're doing nothing else but trying to save lives. This isn't carelessness or greed driving this behaviour.

Our laws are not a suicide pact and sometimes they must be broken.

Re: Risky hack could double access to ventilators

#84
post #65

Is negative pressure ventilation any use in treating Covid-19? Iron lungs are easier to build than positive pressure ventilators. I imagine many HN readers could build something like a Both respirator[0] in their garage over a weekend. Using negative pressure ventilation might be a better option than trying to attach multiple patients to a positive pressure ventilator. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Both_respirato…

Is that what these are? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVodALR3Zoo

No negative pressure ventilators are iron lung type devices. [0] What's in that video look like just oxygen hoods which surround the head in very high oxygen air.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_lung

Re: Risky hack could double access to ventilators

#85

There are some odd quotes and grammatical mistakes in this article. For example: “You wouldn’t want to put a patient with severe bronchospasm [sudden contractions of bronchial muscles in the lungs] with a patient that does not have bronchospasm because that would.” Likewise, one of the cited authors’ names, Babcock, is misspelled in the piece as Babcok. I’m not qualified to assess whether this risk is worth it but I…

It looks like they have since fixed the errors you mentioned, yet they still misspell the author’s name as “Babock.”

Re: Risky hack could double access to ventilators

#86

There are lots of problems with this, but I think it is possibly a better move than some of the home-built ventilators you see floating around. I’m biased though: I’ve designed a 3D printed improvement on this idea that potentially allows you to ventilate multiple patients with different pressures: https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/25808-3d-printed-circui...

I was thinking as I read the article that there was a next step innovation in the wings to vary the treatment by patient.

Re: Risky hack could double access to ventilators

#87
post #65

Is negative pressure ventilation any use in treating Covid-19? Iron lungs are easier to build than positive pressure ventilators. I imagine many HN readers could build something like a Both respirator[0] in their garage over a weekend. Using negative pressure ventilation might be a better option than trying to attach multiple patients to a positive pressure ventilator. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Both_respirato…

It could be but we're even further behind being able to support people on negative pressure than we are on ventilators. The biggest issue is the neck gasket, they have to seal well enough to provide the negative pressure without being super tight while conforming to the geometry of people's necks. It's already a big problem for the small number of people left on iron lungs.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iron-lung-maker-community

Re: Risky hack could double access to ventilators

#88
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on whether you flatten out the growth rate. It won't/can't keep growing like that when everyone is sheltering in place.

Seems likely. Italy is currently seeing a 13% increase per day while the US is now very close to a 50% increase per day. There are news reports showing beaches and bars in the US are still fully packed. It probably relates the US culture of disregarding expert advice and doing the opposite to "own the scientists"

I have said this before I will say it again: people in 2020 are visual learners. There needs to be a boat load of citizen journalists posting videos with dying people and sick people on IG/Twitter/TikTok/Tinder/etc for behavior to change.

Hash tagging #coronavirus #wfh on a photo of a table full of food and 65" TV with Netflix makes it sound like a party.

Re: Risky hack could double access to ventilators

#89

There are some odd quotes and grammatical mistakes in this article. For example: “You wouldn’t want to put a patient with severe bronchospasm [sudden contractions of bronchial muscles in the lungs] with a patient that does not have bronchospasm because that would.” Likewise, one of the cited authors’ names, Babcock, is misspelled in the piece as Babcok. I’m not qualified to assess whether this risk is worth it but I…

It looks like they have since fixed the errors you mentioned, yet they still misspell the author’s name as “Babock.”

Also a spelling error here: “Let’s say 10 people are dying in front of you and you have one ventialtor. That’s a tough call.

Re: Risky hack could double access to ventilators

#90

There are lots of problems with this, but I think it is possibly a better move than some of the home-built ventilators you see floating around. I’m biased though: I’ve designed a 3D printed improvement on this idea that potentially allows you to ventilate multiple patients with different pressures: https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/25808-3d-printed-circui...

Fellow MD trying to help with engineered solutions.

Perhaps check this out as well; someone used a common valve from a hardware store to titrate pressures up and down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSVbwWANqRI&feature=youtu.be.

I've been thinking about how we might increase ventilation to one part of the circuit if the pCO2 drops too badly--any thoughts there?

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