Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 145 posts

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#111

Post by RoboTeddy »

m3nu wrote: post #37

I do China sourcing and have decent access to 3-ply surgical masks and limited access to N95 masks. It's really hard to sell either of those to government bodies, even near cost. Already talked to the Red Cross, wholesale pharmacies and different ministries. They generally insist on payment on delivery, which we can't do for larger orders, as factories sell to whoever has the cash at the factory gate. Some also want…

Can you email me? Can connect you to US hospitals in hotspots in California that are looking to buy. They’re currently not using PPE in all the situations they should be due to shortages.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#112

Post by WalterBright »

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #104
WalterBright wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if the people running the government believe in it or not. Central economic control doesn't work.

Then why is USA so afraid of China?

China gave up on central economic planning to a great extent, and turned to capitalism. The rise of China's economy was a direct result.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#113

Post by WalterBright »

pbourke wrote: post #107
WalterBright wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again severe failure on the govt’s part. Just imagine how bad it would be if we turned industry over to the government to run, too.

Would private industry have won WW2 on its own, or put humans on the moon? That’s the level of commitment and organization that is now required. Private industry is great at many things, but sacrificing profit for a shared goal is not one of them.

The US in WW2 was not a planned economy. The government put out contracts, and private capitalist companies delivered the goods. The government did not run industry. Capitalism worked so well the US was able to fight the war in two theaters while also supplying the other Allied nations. The Axis powers got simply overwhelmed by what American capitalism produced.

> or put humans on the moon?

In the 1960s, nope. The Apollo shots cost $288 billion in today's dollars. That kind of money simply wasn't available to any particular corporation back then. It wasn't sustainable by the government, either, as we went to the moon, landed, came back, and then ... oh well. Nobody has been able to justify the cost since.

But today we are seeing capitalism make enormous cost reductions in rockets, and that will change the game completely.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#114

Post by cameldrv »

diabeetusman wrote: post #65
rhegart wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. There are barely any covid 19 patients yet hospitals are low on masks due to panic. Beds are still open and ventilators contrary to media claims are not currently on a shortage.

There are also not nearly as many tests being run as there are patients with suspect symptoms. Yes, the number of confirmed COVID-19 patients may be low, but that doesn't mean that the number of people with the disease is low. According to the CDC[1], you can contact your healthcare provider for the possibility of a test if (and only if) you are in close contact with someone with the disease or if you're in a communi…

And these criteria become a catch-22. How does a community become identified as having community spread if you won't test anyone in a community that isn't so identified? My understanding is someone has to be admitted to the hospital and then tested to get the ball rolling.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#115

Post by thymolu »

rhegart wrote: post #19
outlace wrote: post #9

There is reason to believe that the hospital mask shortage is due in no small part to employee (and patient/family) theft of masks and not necessarily due to dramatically increased need at hospitals (at least not yet). I say this as a resident physician at an urban hospital in the US. We're now severely low on N95 masks and moderately low on surgical masks but we have only had less than a dozen confirmed covid-19 cas…

This. There are barely any covid 19 patients yet hospitals are low on masks due to panic. Beds are still open and ventilators contrary to media claims are not currently on a shortage.

My family (and myself) work as various healthcare providers.

One of them said a few days ago masks and other supplies were stolen from a delivery truck that was broken into as the driver went in to start the delivery to the hospital.

My sense is there's a lot of leakiness in supply of various forms.

My experience is similar to those of others here: it's not really clear there's a substantial increased patient count at the hospitals here, test or not, but supplies are getting scarcer. Maybe other areas of the country or world are creating shortages.

Testing is a mess, but that's a different issue, one maybe more relevant to public health and policies in some ways.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#116

Post by toohotatopic »

What does it take to build those masks from scratch?

We are at roughly 1 out of 100.000 being infected. Until 60% have developed immunity, there is still a long way to go where almost everybody on earth will want to own masks. The need of the hospitals is just the tip of the iceberg.

Is it possible to source the machines and materials now to be ready for production when the wave hits really hard?

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#117

Post by thymolu »

mindslight wrote: post #54
thedudeabides5 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean say what you will, but that kind of is the American way since the founding of the republic. Don't trust the sovereign to take care of you, because just sometimes that ends with the cops welding people into apartment buildings Does that mean people should hoard and price gouge their fellow man during a pandemic, of course not.

I'd call myself a libertarian. I've gone through phases of many different flavors, but ultimately all united by a general belief that people should be free to make choices for themselves, and ultimately know themselves better than a centralized government. Having said that, there is a huge blindspot of this philosophy with regards to public health. So much so, that when public health officials do their job, we can co…

I'm of the libertarian persuasion too, but I'm really more of what I might refer to as a competitivist, that the government ideally increases competitive exchange of goods services and ideas. Sometimes this means more government services, sometimes less. Regulation is also different from service or resource provision.

In a lot of ways, this crisis was worsened by overregulation. The FDA and CDC to some extent contributed to testing shortages by emphasizing centralized micromanaging of test protocol over test availability. It was entirely preventable.

Many of the crunches we're seeing are due to rent seeking monopolies restricting provider pools and other red tape, that are entirety self inflicted. You're starting to see glimpses of this problem with things like lifting interstate licensing practice constraints, but it's the tip of the iceberg.

US healthcare needs a lot more public support in the form of single payer, etc, but also needs a lot of deregulation.

Libertarianism isn't anarchism either. Healthcare is one of those areas where I think public services makes a lot of sense.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#118

Post by m3nu »

RoboTeddy wrote: post #111
m3nu wrote: post #37

I do China sourcing and have decent access to 3-ply surgical masks and limited access to N95 masks. It's really hard to sell either of those to government bodies, even near cost. Already talked to the Red Cross, wholesale pharmacies and different ministries. They generally insist on payment on delivery, which we can't do for larger orders, as factories sell to whoever has the cash at the factory gate. Some also want…

Can you email me? Can connect you to US hospitals in hotspots in California that are looking to buy. They’re currently not using PPE in all the situations they should be due to shortages.

Just did.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#119

Post by [deleted] »

systemvoltage wrote: post #105
ethbro wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'... democracy is the worst form of Government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time...' What's your proposal for how to ban lobbying?

https://berniesanders.com/issues/money-out-of-politics/ You could vote for him if you're in the US.

[deleted]

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#120

Post by m3nu »

keenmaster wrote: post #102
m3nu wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea. They told me by email. And it makes sense for normal times. It's probably in a procurement regulation or guideline.

Sure, but why do all of the smaller firms absolutely need cash right now? If they sell to a government or large entity, payment is all but assured. Even if they have a high discount rate, they can factor that into the price. There's no way they all need the money now to remain in operation.

We are way past discount rates here. Firms without enough cash won't survive. Even if you double or triple the price, it doesn't help if you're out of business when they pay weeks or months later. That's why some kind of financing is needed for larger orders that need like $ 1/4m to 1m in outlay first.
Post reply on HN