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Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

nytimes.com

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Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#91

Post by Retric »

WalterBright wrote: post #69
quietthrow wrote: post #18

Again severe failure on the govt’s part. Their inaction in when it was needed the most led to all these circumstances that makes it ripe for situations like these. As the number of infections spread and economic situation get worse these kind of things will get really really bad. Once the second and third order effects kick in it’s going to be a catastrophe. And our leaders answer to all of this is to give $1200 chec…

> Again severe failure on the govt’s part. Just imagine how bad it would be if we turned industry over to the government to run, too.

That seems like a complete non sequitur, but it reminds me of an old joke.

1. Elect people who don’t believe in government 2. Get shocked when they do a poor job. 3. ??? 4. Profit

More seriously, I don’t think this is the kind of situation where people are ever going to be happy with how it’s handled. But, governments can do a better or worse job.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#92

Post by systemvoltage »

lambdaba wrote: post #82
nostromo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at farming subsidies as an example. The government funds some percent of our food production by putting in place limited price and production controls for American-produced goods. The hand of the market is not completely removed: producers still want to be as efficient as possible. The cost of food has gone down over time. And inefficient producers still go bankrupt. Is this a good model? I have no idea. It cert…

> It certainly has drawbacks. (Ex: we subsidize too much corn and wheat.) Huge drawback right here, corn (high fructose corn syrup, corn itself) and wheat are both at the center of the obesity epidemic and health crisis. It's a point that's often brought up and isn't controversial at this point, but inertia makes it hard to correct, especially with said subsidies.

Let's go to the source of this problem - Corn/Wheat lobbyist paying off lawmakers in DC. This is the root cause of American sell out. It is an awful system that needs to be completely dismantled, criminilized and banned. Please don't tell me about how each special group has the right to lobby... this is an asymmetrical game. As the corn/wheat lobbyists lobby, who is opposing them? No one. And, as their interests are in billions of dollars, it is literally impossible of oppose.

I am willing to bet, large number of America's problems can be traced straight to the abhorrently corrupt process of lobbying.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#93

Post by s1artibartfast »

theslurmmustflo wrote: post #77
cycrutchfield wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strategic stockpiles seem much more cost effective than autarky.

What if you go to war or the other country chooses to impose economic sanctions?

As long as it goes both way, that seems like a good way to prevent wars.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#94

Post by Gibbon1 »

nostromo wrote: post #68
oezi wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can this be done without abandoning capitalism as a primary driving economic model? It would require a reversal in economic steering (tariffs, government intervention, etc) of enormous scale. The only thing that has come to matter is the hunt to squeeze every penny, we have forgotten to do anything else.

Look at farming subsidies as an example. The government funds some percent of our food production by putting in place limited price and production controls for American-produced goods. The hand of the market is not completely removed: producers still want to be as efficient as possible. The cost of food has gone down over time. And inefficient producers still go bankrupt. Is this a good model? I have no idea. It cert…

My grandmother born around 1900 said what happens when you don't have some government market coordination is damaging boom bust cycles in agriculture. Farmers chasing last years profits tend to over produce, prices crash and farmers go bankrupt. And if you don't keep your poor urban workers fed really bad things happen politically.

I think there can be a lot of debate about the mix of subsidies and price controls. But the need I think is there. Food is a critical need as we are about to note. And it's really not the end of the world if things aren't perfectly optimal.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#95

Post by pbourke »

joe_the_user wrote: post #57

The inability to just requisition, demand resource, mobilize people and so-forth, is breathtaking here. The start of WWII saw the quick re-purposing of industries for the war effort. Today, it seems an inability to see what's necessary and get it to people is disturbing. The situation is effectively a war and one that's being fought very quickly. I could brainstorm and mention the "fast fashion" is renown for creatin…

> The inability to just requisition, demand resource, mobilize people and so-forth, is breathtaking here.

A once-in-a-century threat arrived just as American leadership has fallen further than anyone thought possible in the postwar "Pax Americana" era.

Just 4 years ago, this was unthinkable. Trump would be bad, but we'd have infrastructure spending and regulation cuts, at least. The adults would ultimately be in charge, as always. Right?

We are witnessing the end of the American century. I hate to be so dire, so grim at a time when it's the last thing anyone needs. I'm sorry.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#96

Post by mindslight »

grej wrote: post #35
quietthrow wrote: post #18

Again severe failure on the govt’s part. Their inaction in when it was needed the most led to all these circumstances that makes it ripe for situations like these. As the number of infections spread and economic situation get worse these kind of things will get really really bad. Once the second and third order effects kick in it’s going to be a catastrophe. And our leaders answer to all of this is to give $1200 chec…

"why they are not fired and instead have to wait till next election." Because we still have laws, and elections. What do you want a military coup?

I'd take a few high-profile covid deaths.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#97

Post by m3nu »

fingerlocks wrote: post #88
m3nu wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works for private buyers, but these gov agencies have a regulation that doesn't allow them to pay in advance ever. The price isn't the issue. So they can only buy from really big firms, who don't have stock right now and aren't flexible.

How do I learn more about this regulation?

No idea. They told me by email. And it makes sense for normal times.

It's probably in a procurement regulation or guideline.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#98

Post by ethbro »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #74
systemvoltage wrote: post #39

Let this be a lesson to learn for western democracies to not put all of their eggs in one basket. Diversification, localization and strategic globalization of the supply chain should be at the forefront of the issues to be discussed, ratified and acted upon after this pandemic is over. When one country manufactures 90% of world's goods (not accurate, to make a point), while the top 1% gets their bonuses for increasin…

Strategic stockpiles seem much more cost effective than autarky.

Are they? Meaningful quantities of all critical industrial goods would be incredibly inefficient.

Sum({Some percentage of total use / year} * {Storage costs}) over {All strategic materials}

And remember, all strategic materials would have to extend to things like non-woven fabric to be useful here.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#99

Post by WalterBright »

Retric wrote: post #91
WalterBright wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again severe failure on the govt’s part. Just imagine how bad it would be if we turned industry over to the government to run, too.

That seems like a complete non sequitur, but it reminds me of an old joke. 1. Elect people who don’t believe in government 2. Get shocked when they do a poor job. 3. ??? 4. Profit More seriously, I don’t think this is the kind of situation where people are ever going to be happy with how it’s handled. But, governments can do a better or worse job.

It doesn't matter if the people running the government believe in it or not. Central economic control doesn't work.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#100

Post by ethbro »

systemvoltage wrote: post #92
lambdaba wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It certainly has drawbacks. (Ex: we subsidize too much corn and wheat.) Huge drawback right here, corn (high fructose corn syrup, corn itself) and wheat are both at the center of the obesity epidemic and health crisis. It's a point that's often brought up and isn't controversial at this point, but inertia makes it hard to correct, especially with said subsidies.

Let's go to the source of this problem - Corn/Wheat lobbyist paying off lawmakers in DC. This is the root cause of American sell out. It is an awful system that needs to be completely dismantled, criminilized and banned. Please don't tell me about how each special group has the right to lobby... this is an asymmetrical game. As the corn/wheat lobbyists lobby, who is opposing them? No one. And, as their interests are…

'... democracy is the worst form of Government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time...'

What's your proposal for how to ban lobbying?

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