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Things you can do with a browser in 2020

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Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#221
post #146
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

So that's one good use case for Push Notifications. It would take about 10 minutes of browsing to find 10 bad ones.

I don't really see the issue, as long as there's a security popup when a website requests notification permissions, and a way to just block everything except for a whitelist.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#223
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were OSes they would have a kernel and user land You would have ring0 and ring3 You could decide what to install or what remove In the browser everything is exposed to everyone by default More than an OS is a disaster waiting to happen

Despite the idiotic downvotes, you are absolutely right. Browsers are terrible. No other applications or OS components are so monolithic expose the same attack surface.

What? Running a native desktop app exposes a much larger attack surface than opening a webpage.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#224

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

I think having those capabilities is fine but I hate the endless notifications to use them from every damn web site! There should be a second and much more subtle notification system which does not obscure content or attract attention.

I imagine most sites would be fine with email notifications. In-browser notifications just motivate them to come up with more reasons to notify you. Dumb reasons.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#225

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Then turn them off. All these things landed because users _do_ use them. I 100% want web share, page visibility, usb, and native file system, for instance, because the browser has become a convenient replacement for a bunch of playgroup/PoC/testbed applications that I might have used 10 years ago.

There are a ton of features that browsers have added, and then tossed because no one used them. As well as features the browser vendors wish they could get rid of, but can't because too many sites made use of them.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#226

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

I agree, I don't want it to do any of these things either (with the exception of prefers-color-scheme and prefers-reduced-motion, which I like; however, web pages that use only one colour should not set or care about the colour at all).

Some of these things though it may be useful to have, although should be set by the user, independently of the web page entirely; the web page should not be allowed to specify these things.

Specifically, the following things could be user commands (that the web page need not know or care about whether or not it is implemented or used): Picture-in-Picture, Keyboard Lock, Pointer Lock, AirPlay, Screen Orientation (although see below for some comments), camera selection (the user would also be allowed to specify a file instead of the camera, or the user can specify to use the camera where a file is expected too), Theme Color, Badging, Chrome Sender.

Screen Orientation and Presentation Mode: In presentation mode (selectable by the user), this is a "paged screen" media rather than a "continuous screen" media; in this case, the height of one page is known to CSS and JavaScripts (this should be reported as the visible height, even if it isn't entirely visible; in normal more, Infinity should always be reported rather than the correct height), and page breaks work. The width and height may be known too (although not of the entire screen, unless it is full screen mode), but the user would lock the screen orientation using the global screen orientation locking function, if that is what is wanted. If CSS is disabled, then of course this won't work, but that is OK, since if the CSS is disabled then presumably the user doesn't want it to work, so it is OK. For displaying on a separate screen, that may be a function of the operating system anyways, and not of the web browser.

Payment Request is simply a specific case of autofill. Forms could specify autofill IDs, which are more general than this anyways, and fully controllable by the user. Credential Management could also work like this, although using HTTP authentication rather than forms/cookies would seem a better idea to me.

For sharing, the user can just copy the URL by himself; the browser might (or might not) include sharing functions for URLs, or the user may use a separate program which implements this; it is irrelevant which way is done.

Service Workers: For sending forms when internet is not available, what I wanted is the ability to save form data locally to disk and recall it later (on the same or a different webpage), entirely under the user's control; the web page should not need to know or care about this.

Game Pad and Force Touch are probably fine, although, like the keyboard and mouse, should only be enabled when the user activates it.

There are many other things too I think should be done differently.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#227

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Allow me the chance to try and change you mind just a little bit.

The web is one of the most open platforms that has ever existed — period. Since the dawn of the smart phone the web developer has heard the following request: "I need a native app because push messages!". Execs want them, users want them. They literally bang down your door asking for the damn things. Allowing the browser to handle push messages means you can keep your app on this amazing open platform instead of share cropping in some app store.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#228
post #134
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You consider them undesirable, but they are a critical feature for many applications. Specifically, chat. More specifically... support agents providing live chat support. (And for that matter, end users interacting via chat appreciate push notifications on reply) Without browser push notifications, there really isn’t a good alternative. The fact that opt in rates are close to 50% is probably a good thing! It means th…

Chat is probably one of the only functionalities that are still better served by an ad-hoc app If you need notifications, just use a native app (or even a web one wrapped in a native app) Anyway, most of these "features" are used because they are already there, remove them from the base install of the browser, distribute them as a plugin and make the devs consider that the feature could not be present and they will s…

> Chat is probably one of the only functionalities that are still better served by an ad-hoc app

Yes, actually, IRC works better for chat, I think. Actually, it is probably true of some other stuff too, such as many kind of multiplayer games; you could use a telnet (or SSH) session.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#229
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with native app? You can delete it when you are done with it, just like you can close a browser tab when you are done with the "entire" web app you downloaded.

No uBlock, no dev console, no network tab. Completely opaque. An install step just to order a pizza. Shareable URLs/deeplinks. It's a freak of luck that we have the web, an app environment with a built-in dev console and actual customization. Just think how much it contrasts with the black box of native apps and with what large companies actually want. I'm in no rush to throw it away.

Also no ctrl+f find.

One of the many reasons I use Amazon via browser and not app. Also open link in new window so you don't lose state, compare easily and much much more.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#230
post #208
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a thing that happens often? Used to, your phone number was in a publicly available book. Pretty sure we use legislation to block abuse of that kind. Similarly, used to, my browser was not a bloated application capable of sending me messages. Such that there have been times just launching chrome I get notifications I didn't know my family were going to accidentally enable...

> Is this a thing that happens often? Used to, your phone number was in a publicly available book. When you could only call that number. Messaging is pretty different. And sure it happens! Phone numbers are (nearly) immutable. It's a valuable piece of personal information. Your web push ID is... not.

I still get more robo calls on landlines than on my cell. Conveniently, my cell is in a different area code from where I live, so even easy to spot the bad ones. And I have never gotten an unsolicited text. That wasn't a wrong number.
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