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Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

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Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#91
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is funny, because that would not have been true at the time. Shakespeare was pop culture.

Some big literature classics in Brazil (I suspect other places too, Dickens maybe?) were published as weekly columns on newspapers. Kind of the soap opera of the times. Now they are treated as high brow art, with the good and bad parts of this stereotype (e.g. sophisticated/boring).

[deleted]

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#92
post #2

Interesting and amusing read. Of course Ron Gilbert is a well-known authority on Adventure Games, but the original Old Man Murray article is even better (and funnier). In case anyone hasn't read it yet: "Who Killed Adventure Games?" http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/77.html (As an amusing aside, point-and-click adventure games were considered to be for "clever" gamers in 90s Spain and Latin America; gamers who moc…

When I first got an iPad I was almost certain this was going to herald a great resurgence of point-and-click style adventure games. I still don't really understand why it didn't. Unwillingness to pay for software I suppose? The interaction is perfect for a touch screen, the display is amazing, and the casual demographic seems like the ideal one to pick it up. Even puzzle games, like Phoenix Wright, would have worked…

I had a good experience with a PNK adventure on a large Android phone. My guess is these adventures are now competing with all other kinds of games. And the modern tech allows for so many possibilities.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#93
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially confusing since "get" to my knowledge has been the conventional keyword used for this action in the vast majority of parser games and MUDs (maybe "take" in some cases, but "pick-up"? Really?). I'm a native English-speaker and that still probably would have stumped me for a while.

Since "pick up" should not be hyphenated , as a native English speaker I don't think I would have ever guessed it!

That's probably on me though, not the original game. Let's keep in mind that this is a memory from ~30 years ago, so not that reliable in general

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#94
> Never require a player to pick up an item that is used later in the game if she can't go back and get it when it is needed. It is very frustrating to learn that a seemingly insignificant object is needed, and the only way to get it is to start over or go back to a saved game.

This reminds me of Return to Zork, in which on the very first screen the player sees a small plant growing out of a rock. If the player misses or ignores it, or if they choose to cut it or tear it out instead of gently digging it out, they won't able to defeat the last boss.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#95
post #6

There did seem to be a huge gap for many years in the existence of good adventure games. I have fond memories of many ones from yesteryear, but then it largely felt that anything that was out was pretty boring or just trying to copy them. And last week I started playing Disco Elysium, and it's everything I ever wanted from something like an adventure/rpg and more.

I was going to say exactly the same about Disco Elysium. While classed as an RPG, I'd say it's more of an adventure game disguised as an RPG. The game is just point and click, talk to people, interact with the world, and solve puzzles. The leveling up mechanic makes it much more interesting to play, but it's not really the core gameplay

Well it is RPG indeed (unless someone understands it as "Ravage, Pillage, Grind"), but on the adventure spectrum it is more lika a choose-your-own-adventure game. The game interface is pretty much dialogue trees, at some point close to the end of the game, the game even poke at it not-so-subtly. Puzzles in those kind of games are prone to brute-forcing all dialogue choices.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#96
Interesting, I feel like the Author is describing what a well done Visual Novel does in their critics of the whole Adventure Game Genre. To summarize lazily: "remove the stupid puzzles and just take the reader on a wild ride for a couple of hours"

Maybe they kinda predicted YUNO and the whole VN explosion in Japan that came soon after their article was published. Or a least the reason why the demand was there.

Granted, these games still cost 40+ bucks and deliver 20+ hours of gameplay, which differs from the vision the Author outlined. But that seems to be because the extra effort does lead to better returns (and maybe that consumers want 20+ hour games), so it's a good thing.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#97
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't go past the first few scenes of Thimbleweed Park either. I think I would have loved it when I was a teenager, but the point-and-click genre is just not for me anymore. (Also, and I know this is heresy, I couldn't finish the much lauded Psychonauts back then either). I think I simply had more patience for this kind of games when I was younger. I'm more willing to give experimental Interactive Fiction a go t…

Yeah, I think adventure games were given a free pass in the 2000's when the narratology vs ludology debate was going on, being automatically labelled as narrative games. There is/was also a very vocal crowd for insane puzzles that drove out regular or casual players to other pastures. Nowadays I either play a game for the dopamine rush (street fighter), the zen like thing (the witness/the talos principle) or the stor…

The witness is a very relaxing game

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#98
post #5

I so desperately want to like adventure games. I love the visual styles, I love the storytelling opportunities, but the idea of being defeated by an opaque puzzle infuriates me.

The Walking Dead telltale games are worth checking out. Almost all narrative

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Thimbleweed Park compare with something like Stardew Valley, where the narrative is almost minimal, rather the gameplay is about understanding and manipulating complex interlocking systems. I find that a much more engaging game design that the point and click adventure games I have seen.

It's a totally different genre. Stardew Valley is essentially a "farming simulator". There might be one or two secrets I can think of that you can stumble upon, but they aren't essential to the game. There are also character stories you can discover, but they're again not essential to the core of the game. Thimbleweed Park is an explicit tribute to LucasArts point and click adventure games like Day of the Tentacle an…

I should have mentioned South Park: Stick of Truth and it's sequel, they are also nicely done and feel very dynamic.

Re: Why Adventure Games Suck (1989)

#100

"If I could have my way, I'd design games that were meant to be played in four to five hours. The games would be of the same scope that I currently design, I'd just remove the silly time-wasting puzzles and take the player for an intense ride. The experience they would leave with would be much more entertaining and a lot less frustrating. The games would still be challenging, but not at the expense of the players pat…

Reminds me of Life is Strange, which is a really good "adventure game" btw.

I was pleasantly surprised by this game. I got it on a Steam sale for a great price and thought, why not? One of the best games I've played all decade.

In fact I bought the next one in the series, I think "Before the Storm" hoping it would continue the magic but ugh, nope. I stopped playing after the first few iterations it was just so off-key. Appears that another studio took over for that one and boy can you tell.

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