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Netflix to cut streaming quality in Europe for 30 days

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Netflix to cut streaming quality in Europe for 30 days

#471

Post by cortesoft »

Hamuko wrote: post #252
afarrell wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking actions like changing billing code requires time and effort. COVID-19 requires spending time and effort on lots of things. Everything has an opportunity cost. Spend time and attention on things that matter.

Considering how often Netflix has jacked up my plan prices, I imagine they already have the billing code in place.

They have raised the rates 4 times in their history, from $8 up to $13... although you can still get basic for $9

Doesn’t seem that often or that excessive.

Re: Netflix to cut streaming quality in Europe for 30 days

#472

Post by orcasauce »

Retric wrote: post #455
orcasauce wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are overestimating the capabilities, and potential "savings", of P2P here. For one, OpenConnect already does what you're suggesting at the "city" level since it's sitting in ISP DCs. Second, there are minimal gains in the last mile via P2P, if at all, considering the numerous types of devices streaming. How do you handle TVs that are already memory constrained by the streaming app? Do mobile devices const…

> What if you’re streaming from a neighbor who turns off their computer? The default is to download 100% from a CDN somewhere, and P2P that default to the same behavior can’t be a net negative outside of sub 0.1% extra communication overhead. Don’t want to use your upload bandwidth? That’s fine your simply stuck using the same CDN network that’s currently overloaded. So none of the above are actual issues, a device d…

You're grossly oversimplifying the complexity involved with "streaming" a video. Specifically in the context of a service like Disney+ or Netflix. Additionally how do you "find" that content near you? How do you ensure it is available? How do you ensure it is correct? Who owns it? How do you ensure copyright/drm/licenses are respected? What do you do when it disappears? The gains are incredibly slim, if at all, for the engineering challenges it introduces.

You also confuse "CDN somewhere" with OpenConnect box literally inside your ISP's DC. It is probably faster to get it this way than it would be to P2P it from your neighbor since, at the end of the day, that P2P traffic _must_ go through your ISP and their ISP. It will not, by definition, peer at the local hub. You are _NOT_ on a local network with your building/neighbors/etc. Your communication routes to your ISP and then out to anywhere else, even if that somewhere else is on the other side of your wall.

Even if it was possible. Even if it was slightly faster. Do you really think studio execs are going to be okay with customers hosting/serving their content off their machines? Even _IF_ this was "technically" a good idea, this is a non-starter from the business standpoint.

Re: Netflix to cut streaming quality in Europe for 30 days

#473

Post by ineedasername »

I don't quite understand the "how dare they!" attitude some of the comments here convey.

If you want to talk legality etc., most contracts have a "force majeur" clause that would cover this sort of thing. And even if it didn't, if enough businesses start having to modify or break service agreements in these ways through a world-wide crisis then governments will step in and legislate them out of liability. There won't be too much sympathy for the "victims" of Netflix either. Not from the general public, especially those who lose friends or family to the pandemic. Not over someone's pixelated experience of End Game or The Office. I know people who are sick, one closely, and I don't know if they're going to survive. Suffering through SD quality (or worse!) isn't what I concern myself with at the moment.

Re: Netflix to cut streaming quality in Europe for 30 days

#474

Post by orcasauce »

lxgr wrote: post #333
TrickyRick wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't really matter though, still means (Slightly oversimplified) that a peer can connect to 10 hosts and not have to download at all from the origin server. Also this simply isn't true in a lot of European countries where upload and download speeds are equal, but that's a different thing.

The math still does not work out. On an 1:10 asymmetric connection, users would need to remain available for seeding 10 times longer than it takes to download (and presumably watch) the film to have a net positive impact on the system. That's not exactly realistic, considering that a lot of traffic goes to mobile devices where this would outright kill battery life.

And Smart TVs which lack the computational power/storage/memory to serve traffic.

Re: Netflix to cut streaming quality in Europe for 30 days

#475

Post by chrisseaton »

martyvis wrote: post #463
chrisseaton wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have had 4 techs come try to figure it out Doesn't sound ideal for distancing.

The way the story is written it sounds like their attendance was there was serial temporal distance involved (they didn't come at the same time)

I mean inviting four different people into your home sounds silly if they're there at the same time or not! I guess people need internet to earn a living though.

Re: Netflix to cut streaming quality in Europe for 30 days

#476

Post by robocat »

toyg wrote: post #356
rwbhn wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rolling out that tech has got to be more expensive than checking the load first.

Dunno how it is in the States, but here in UK rolling out the tech is basically the first thing they do after the unavoidable "have you tried turning it on and off again" phone call. They just don't trust the customer to have any clue and maybe don't want to waste time doing troubleshooting at their end when it's "probably" a downstream issue.

In NZ you sign up with an ISP, but your local connection is usually handled by the same physical equipment (DSLAM for ADSL, etc) which is owned by a single network provider.

I’m not sure what the incentives are for an ISP to try to get the provider to fix issues, or even if they would e.g. https://company.chorus.co.nz/what-we-do is notoriously bad for service and the copper network is being deprecated. Locally https://www.enable.net.nz/about-enable/ are doing a good job of service, because they are well subsidised by the government and seem to be effectively operated.

Re: Netflix to cut streaming quality in Europe for 30 days

#477

Post by op00to »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #386
op00to wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech was full of shit. This happens literally all the time. You probably won’t get a “node split” unless more people loudly complain. It’s cheaper for them to roll a tech and hope you get fed up than it is to actually fix the problem.

I don't see what motivation a tech would have for lying about this.

Because he wanted you to believe they were going to fix the problem at a later date so he could go to the next job (paid by the gig) and get you to close the ticket (improve his metrics).

Re: Netflix to cut streaming quality in Europe for 30 days

#478

Post by YayamiOmate »

ineedasername wrote: post #473

I don't quite understand the "how dare they!" attitude some of the comments here convey. If you want to talk legality etc., most contracts have a "force majeur" clause that would cover this sort of thing. And even if it didn't, if enough businesses start having to modify or break service agreements in these ways through a world-wide crisis then governments will step in and legislate them out of liability. There won't…

Yea. And what was the process here? One guy told another he's afraid. That's not how we in EU are used to governing. This is not a dictatorship.

There is absolutely no legal reason to downgrade performance of service. It's a big WTF.

What's next. A guy telling other to sell lesser quality of what?

Re: Netflix to cut streaming quality in Europe for 30 days

#479

Post by kitteh »

notyourday wrote: post #456
Sosh101 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe 10 years ago? I don't know anyone with a connection that badly asymmetrical.

That's not the bottleneck. The bottleneck is the IP interconnect capacity between edge network and its peers. If you only have 4x100 Gbit/sec IP sink to Level3 in SEA and your other sink is 100G to NTT, no amount of traffic engineering in your edge network is going to give you more than 500 Gbit/sec of exit and that exit will only be available if NTT has entire 100Gbit/sec that is not congested and Level3 has 400Gbit…

This is a accurate explanation. Eyeballs are inbound heavy and have plenty of outbound capacity (it's also why they don't care about outbound ddos so much...). However it's important to remember that they can easily congest their internal network infra on the inbound.
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