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LSE Halts

londonstockexchange.com

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Re: LSE Halts

#51

Post by alecco »

davidw wrote: post #45
alecco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand how they choose languages with garbage collection for systems that should be real time or similar.

Erlang is not "real time" in the hard, embedded systems sense, but it does pretty well and has GC. Here's a bit more information: http://www.erlang.org/faq/academic.html#id55755 I don't know what sorts of 'real time' properties trading systems are required to have - can anyone talk about it with a bit more in-depth knowledge?

I don't buy Erlang camp's reports.

A GC will always trash the cache, and that's the worst issue right now in hardware. (If you take out HDD I/O.)

Re: LSE Halts

#52

Post by alecco »

IDisposableHero wrote: post #49
davidw wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erlang is not "real time" in the hard, embedded systems sense, but it does pretty well and has GC. Here's a bit more information: http://www.erlang.org/faq/academic.html#id55755 I don't know what sorts of 'real time' properties trading systems are required to have - can anyone talk about it with a bit more in-depth knowledge?

I don't know much, but for high-frequency trading, fast is never fast enough. response times are measured in microseconds. http://richg74.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/speedy-new-lse-tradi... http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Linux-boosts-Stock-Ex...

Speed isn't all. The system should be based in algorithms with manageable worst case time.

Re: LSE Halts

#53

Post by [deleted] »

ig1 wrote: post #35
laktek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's about talent, but more of a problem of proper planning and execution. It seems things had been rushed to meet the tight demands, causing the chaos. When LSE acquired MilleniumIT, to redo the platform, they claimed to have developed world fastest trading platform[1] and had enough talent under their belt developing trading systems around the globe for last decade. [1] http://www.wallstreetandtech.co…

None of the exchanges have the required talent. Being the best exchange technology company is like being the best team in a minor league. If you're good at extreme low latency stuff you're going to be working for a bank. At a bank being great at low-latency can mean tens of millions of dollars of profit for your trading desk and a huge bonus for your personally. At an exchange being great a low-latency means ... well…

[deleted]

Re: LSE Halts

#54

Post by fendale »

alecco wrote: post #39
ig1 wrote: post #14

The problem is that the LSE can't hire top tier talent. There are plenty of people who are experts in building hugely concurrent and fail-safe exchange software, and they pretty much all work for investment banks. The LSE can't afford to compete with $1000/day salaries so they end up hiring second-tier developers. And unfortunately second-tier developers are a lot lot worse than first-tier developers.

That's very likely. Any programmer with even an entry level position at the LSE would get head hunted by multiple agents in the first month. And the investment banks do pay £700/day for talent.

I know at least two guys who are getting paid closer to £1000 a day to work in London for a bank. The money is pretty much insane imho, and the guys tells me the 'talent' is just like anywhere else - ie most people are meerly compentent (but still getting paid £500 plus a day). Even graduates with zero experience are taken on at £300 a day or more.

He seems to better than competent, and so has managed to negotiate a much higher rate.

Re: LSE Halts

#55

Post by dagw »

IDisposableHero wrote: post #50
alecco wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want it to be that. I'm saying the rumour sounds plausible.

Not so plausible to me, considering that the old system was in C#.

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that they where using F# for some parts.

Re: LSE Halts

#56

Post by chollida1 »

ig1 wrote: post #35
laktek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's about talent, but more of a problem of proper planning and execution. It seems things had been rushed to meet the tight demands, causing the chaos. When LSE acquired MilleniumIT, to redo the platform, they claimed to have developed world fastest trading platform[1] and had enough talent under their belt developing trading systems around the globe for last decade. [1] http://www.wallstreetandtech.co…

None of the exchanges have the required talent. Being the best exchange technology company is like being the best team in a minor league. If you're good at extreme low latency stuff you're going to be working for a bank. At a bank being great at low-latency can mean tens of millions of dollars of profit for your trading desk and a huge bonus for your personally. At an exchange being great a low-latency means ... well…

> At an exchange being great a low-latency means ... well not much, your exchange gets a bit more flow and you get a pat on the back.

Exchanges pay out bigger bonus' than you'd imagine. 7 figures for a programmer is high but no where out of the ordinary. Says a guy who has worked for an exchange.

Re: LSE Halts

#57

Post by chollida1 »

alecco wrote: post #37
IDisposableHero wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have publicly stated that the system is written in C++ on Suse Linux. http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/open-source/3260727/lond...

I wouldn't believe 100% in those statements.

> I wouldn't believe 100% in those statements.

Why not? What makes you think this is a lie?

Re: LSE Halts

#58

Post by pnathan »

drstrangevibes wrote: post #5

this is the official place for updates, although its not very responsive at the moment,probably due to load http://liveservice.londonstockexchangegroup.com/en/incidents...

It's been archived - here's the link to this incident in the archive:

http://liveservice.londonstockexchangegroup.com/en/incidents...

Re: LSE Halts

#59

Post by timrobinson »

chollida1 wrote: post #47
mtkd wrote: post #12

"And as a final note, solely for the seriously nerdy techies, there's been some talk about the failure being due to F# error." http://ftalphaville.ft.com/marketslive/

that link doesn't contain the text 'F#' any where on the page.

It's been archived to http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/02/25/498596/markets-li...

Re: LSE Halts

#60

Post by CountHackulus »

axod wrote: post #38
alecco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand how they choose languages with garbage collection for systems that should be real time or similar.

GC isn't a problem for realtime systems, if configured correctly. For example, have the GC running incrementally in a separate thread.

Close, you do need to stop the world every once in a while to GC some of the harder stuff.

But it's true, there's flavors of Java that are certified for hard realtime. If you stop the GC for 100ms every 2s regardless if you need it or not, that's pretty nice and predictable behavior for a realtime system.

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