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Whiteboard exercises are a terrible way to investigate coding ability (2012)

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Re: Whiteboard exercises are a terrible way to investigate coding ability (2012)

#11
post #6

The article says that whiteboard tests are about whiteboard tests. Ultimately, pen and paper tests are about pen and paper tests. Take-home tests are about take-home tests. Algorithm tests are about algorithm tests, and chess tests are about chess tests. But among these, I would argue that the whiteboard is better at facilitating general communication. If you have anything to say about anything, whiteboards are the m…

It's great if that's how you're being scored, but you never know how you're being scored. One interviewer might be happy with a conceptual approach, another one might reject you for leaving off a curly brace.

[deleted]

Re: Whiteboard exercises are a terrible way to investigate coding ability (2012)

#13
I'm an anomaly. I like whiteboard algorithm tests. I do still think it is kinda a waste of time doing Leetcode over and over like what I'm doing right now, but hear me out.

An even more waste of time is actually learning framework A, B, C, D, database A, B, C, D, bundler A, B, C, D.

The more and more I think about it, as a fullstack developer, I continuously forget documentations and how a specific technology works, but I was always able to solve problems using those in the past. I did Angular, Vue, jQuery, React, Webpack 1, 2, 3, 4, Grunt, Gulp. I did MongoDB, MySQL, S3, DynamoDB, Go, Python. Those things change all the time and I always forget how they worked. Because I genuinely like fullstack development I always switch back and forth between different technologies and I can't remember them all.

Whenever a company interview me, I'd really appreciate it if they just ask whiteboard algorithm questions instead, at the very least I don't have to scramble brushing up X if I got interviewed as an X developer. At least whiteboard algorithm and data structures questions make me stronger fundamentally as an all around developer and I just need to grind those. And after a while, grinding those aren't that difficult anymore.

P.S. I still failed FAANG interview, but I still keep grinding Leetcode. I am definitely a believer in whiteboard algorithm and data structure questions. It is simple, to the point, saves everyone time. If I were an interviewer I would also ask data structures and algorithm questions instead of nitty bitty of React hooks or Javascript promises or Golang's concurrency pattern. Those things can be learned easily if you are a decent all around developer.

I'm an average developer. I don't have the creative capability or the insights that 10x programmer has. Those people are not only good with programming, but also at mentoring, at business, at finance, at swimming, at hunting bears, at predicting the future, etc. So, in my resume I often don't have those quantitative accomplishment "implement X in Y minutes that resulted in Z performance and A savings for the company". So, whiteboard algorithm questions fits me better.

Re: Whiteboard exercises are a terrible way to investigate coding ability (2012)

#15

Programming on a projector is the stuff nightmares are made of... but it still beats a whiteboard. Anyway, I don't think those boards are there to investigate ability. They are basically useless for that. If they have a rational motive at all, it's probably because the most strict schools teach the "assemble everything in your head, then write it" method, so they accidentally select people with good credentials.

> Programming on a projector is the stuff nightmares are made of... but it still beats a whiteboard.

It depends.

I recently had an onsite interview where I was handed a laptop to write code on, which was great. What was not great was that the interviewer was shadowed by 2 other developers and had to write the code while screensharing to the meeting room's screen. It was basically a meeting where people were looking at me go. It was by far the weirdest experience ever (and I've been doing this for decades). I kind of missed the 1:1 with the interviewer and a whiteboard.

Re: Whiteboard exercises are a terrible way to investigate coding ability (2012)

#16
post #6

The article says that whiteboard tests are about whiteboard tests. Ultimately, pen and paper tests are about pen and paper tests. Take-home tests are about take-home tests. Algorithm tests are about algorithm tests, and chess tests are about chess tests. But among these, I would argue that the whiteboard is better at facilitating general communication. If you have anything to say about anything, whiteboards are the m…

It's great if that's how you're being scored, but you never know how you're being scored. One interviewer might be happy with a conceptual approach, another one might reject you for leaving off a curly brace.

In my experience some interviewers were not happy that I worked on a brute force solution first, with the aim to optimize it after I got it working. They wanted to see the efficient, optimized solution first. That is counter to everything I read before doing these interviews, and it was, I think, a bit unreasonable.

Re: Whiteboard exercises are a terrible way to investigate coding ability (2012)

#17

Try doing whiteboard exercises over video conferencing for even more fun.

Amazon does this. My experience was terrible. I don't mind whiteboarding if they don't care about specifics, and are open to talking about process and ideas, versus strict syntax.

It can work if both participants have styluses with their tablets (iPad Pro is best) and they use something like google Jamboard. For coding exercises, use alongside code road running on your laptop.

Re: Whiteboard exercises are a terrible way to investigate coding ability (2012)

#18
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great if that's how you're being scored, but you never know how you're being scored. One interviewer might be happy with a conceptual approach, another one might reject you for leaving off a curly brace.

In my experience some interviewers were not happy that I worked on a brute force solution first, with the aim to optimize it after I got it working. They wanted to see the efficient, optimized solution first. That is counter to everything I read before doing these interviews, and it was, I think, a bit unreasonable.

As much of a cesspool of anonymous gossip as places like Glassdoor might be, reporting this sort of bad behavior might be useful, if to at least force companies that engage in unreasonable behavior to grapple with these poor policies. Or to warn other candidates of what they’re in for.

Re: Whiteboard exercises are a terrible way to investigate coding ability (2012)

#19

Being good at coding can be predicted by IQ. Being good at white boarding puzzles require IQ. -----> White board puzzles filter for good coders. Its not perfect, but its the best way to scale it. Sorry everyone, this isn't going away

> Its not perfect, but its the best way to scale it.

IQ tests scale a lot better than one-to-one whiteboard interviews do. They are specifically designed for that purpose.

How is an expensive, labor-intensive, never-validated approximation of an IQ test "better scaled" than a cheap, easy-to-administer, thoroughly validated IQ test?

Re: Whiteboard exercises are a terrible way to investigate coding ability (2012)

#20

I don't see the problem with whiteboard as long as its emphasized that you are looking for an algorithmic solution, not a perfectly running code snippet in a specific language. Whiteboard is great for sketching out ideas and solving problems collaboratively, which is a good indicator of team fit.

Exactly right. I think a lot of people stress that a whiteboard exercise is not a great way to ascertain coding skill.... and they're right. The part they're missing is the whiteboard exercise isn't intended to only test coding skill.

It's about how well you ask questions, how well you listen to instructions, how well you work with others and interpret the specs and information you're given. Then it's about how well you adapt to changing or incomplete requirements, and how well you can explain yourself and your thought process.

Like so many tests in life it's not about the "answer", it's about the process you used to get there.

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