101–110 of 584 posts
Seeing how inefficient and slow our health-care system is, I think the free-market approach may actually be better here.
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Making the ventilators is not the only way to make world a better place. I consider my daytime job making the world a better place even in these dark days. But I don't work at ventilators factoy (or in hospital, or in anything directly related to coronavirus). (Edit: clarification; cleanup)
Talking about downvoting is very taboo on HN. It's in the FAQ/guidelines. Relax, I've had countless comments start off downvoted then turn into +30 by the end of the day. It's a silly thing to get upset about, as long as you originally commented with earnest intentions there's nothing to worry about (even being wrong, if misunderstood then try harder next time to communicate it better).
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I think you can take this analogy too far. If I were to do so, I'd say that the OP is suggesting that Pearl Harbor was attacked, the President said it was no big deal, just one Japanese plane, and the country collectively twiddled their thumbs while the enemy advanced.
True. Not sure why everything is always compared to a war in any case? We have a war on this, a war on that. You can compare anything to a war, but that doesn't mean you're going to get useful insights out of the exercise. I mean, yeah, I suppose it's Pearl Harbor is attacked and we twiddled our thumbs, but what insights useful right now in dealing with this virus does that comparison uncover? It's kind of just noise…
If we were serving in the White House right now I'd agree with you. But we're just people shooting the shit online, I don't really see what harm it does to discuss the things that are on our minds. Nothing we’re talking about here is really all that useful in terms of tackling the issue in front of us all.
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Yes, it probably will look like an overreaction, but that doesn't provide carte-blanche to overreact every time there's a new virus. As GP mentioned, this happens every few years. Most of the time, it fizzles out. We can't transition all production to hospital equipment every few years, even if it is the right call twice a century. I have often reprimanded (and have in turn been reprimanded) for overengineering a sol…
We keep a MASSIVE oversupply surplus for the military at all times. If that's OK, why not do that for health related issues too?
I don't, though, disagree with keeping a large stockpile of goods.* I just disagree with constantly kneejerk reassigning production to it.
* I still don't know that it can work, but only because I think people too quickly forget that it's important. If people could be convinced otherwise in the long term, I think it's a great idea.
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At the risk of being argumentative I would point out that many Americans died unnecessarily at the beginning of WWII as well. This is a common pattern in wars.
We are not at war. We are +T two months since the first confirmed case in the USA and had warning nearly a month prior to that, and the Federal government has done almost nothing of substance other than reject tests and advice from nations who have been fighting this far better than we have, because they have functional health services.
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Elon Musk does not owe people anything. If he decides to produce them, that's fine, but he doesn't have to. But the governments should buy these ventilators from private companies, so private companies like Tesla or GM were incentivized to produce these ventilators. Edit: added and then removed a comment about downvotes
You're right, Elon has no inherent responsibility to solve this (he's not Batman to call on whenever we need). Many large companies are already open to helping. There's no shortage of willing capacity. What they need is approval and guidance from the government, that's where the failure is. Notice there's still no reply taking up GM on their offer.
I actually think these companies need orders from the governments, not just approval and guidance.
People compared coronavirus with war in this thread. AFAIK private companies made tanks and guns for money, not for free during WW2 (except for USSR).
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This is pure hindsight. This didn't warrant that kind of response in January, not by a longshot. In January it looked exactly like the other comparatively minor respiratory viruses that pop up every few years. We can't shut down industry and retool factories just in case.
Tell that to South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan who mobilized immediately (South Korea had their first case on the same day we did, Jan 8) Also, for H1N1 (which ended up being much less deadly) Obama had a million tests made in the first 2 weeks from the first US case. We're now 2 months from the first US case with less than 20k tests done.
Manufacture of medical devices has specific regulation around Good Manufacturing Processes [1] (GMP, one of many GxPs). This requires a Quality Management System [2] (QMS) and very specific training for everyone involved. Pretty much any manufacturer that is not already manufacturing in accordance with 21 CFR Part 820 [3] and related regulations will have a ton of work to establish a suitable QMS. I'd like to think t…
Regulations and regulators can and will be damned in an emergency.
Of course, all reasonable precautions should be taken when producing medical equipment. But if someone needs a ventilator, they are going to die without it. It doesn't matter that there is a small chance that complications arise or some flaw in the ventilator causes it not to work correctly. They would have died without the ventilator in nearly 100% of cases.
Like many regulations right now, they will be temporarily suspended within reason.
Meanwhile, actual ventilator manufacturers are not getting many orders: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/18/ventilator-...
Nonetheless ramping up supply still solves the problem by driving prices down
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Talking about downvoting is very taboo on HN. It's in the FAQ/guidelines. Relax, I've had countless comments start off downvoted then turn into +30 by the end of the day. It's a silly thing to get upset about, as long as you originally commented with earnest intentions there's nothing to worry about (even being wrong, if misunderstood then try harder next time to communicate it better).
I have not found it in the FAQ/guidelines, but anyway, I have removed these notes. Thanks!