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Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

japantimes.co.jp

91–100 of 106 posts

Re: Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

#91
post #4

I used to be pro-nuclear, but here in South Africa, we can't even keep our coal plants running - nevermind nuclear. Last week a 930MW nuclear turbine at Koeberg went down because the cooling pump filters had not been cleaned in years and was filled with fish and jellyfish. Small-scale, independent solar producers and perhaps geothermal or CSP (molten salt) seem to be the only strategies that can work. There will alwa…

> There will always be corruption, war and fraud. To be pro-nuclear, you have to guarantee political stability for 100+ years, and I don't think many places could guarantee that. Indeed. This is the crux of it. Nuclear run by the US military? Very safe. Nuclear (as a power source, not talking munitions) run by the rest of the world as a commercial operation? Fraught with peril. I'm not anti-nuclear; I'm anti-humans-r…

Exactly. For equal investment dollars and resulting real generating capacity, compare the time each will take to reach that goal, as against the very real climate threat. Real-world investors made their decision long ago.

Even neglecting the never-resolved waste problem, it's a no-brainer. Until the Sun quits, renewables are safe, clean, and unlikely to create any more disasters.

Re: Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

#92
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason trillions of dollars haven't been spent cleaning up the byproducts of burning fossil fuels is because we just dump it into the environment instead. If the fossil fuel industry were held accountable for the waste, it would be much more expensive than the boondoggle that is Yucca mountain. (Particularly if CO2 emissions are properly considered...)

Good point. Any idea on the costs associated with implementing something like carbon capture?

Best so far is 1 gigajoule per ton of CO2: http://news.mit.edu/2019/mit-engineers-develop-new-way-remov...

Which is pretty much only going to happen if you invest a lot of money into nuclear facilities dedicated to this. 1GJ is about 280 kilowatt-hours.

Re: Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

#93
post #37
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you've never personally experienced the US military... Kidding aside, while many service members do uphold their oath honorably, there's plenty of non-compliance and outright malfeasance without accountability. And to the grandparent, the military does run reactors outside of ships (but typically for research as far as I know)

> I see you've never personally experienced the US military I see you haven't bothered to actually look at the record. The U.S. Navy has decades of operating many nuclear reactors on ships and submarines with no incidents. > there's plenty of non-compliance and outright malfeasance without accountability Not in the U.S. Navy's nuclear program. Even what would be considered minor infractions in other parts of the mili…

What was the Thresher, SeaLab 1963? Rickover couldn’t throw everyone else under the bus fast enough after.

Re: Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

#94
post #51
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like this isn't so true now with the COVID crisis. Lots of talk about giving everyone checks. Lots of companies continuing to pay workers who aren't working. What drives your statement?

The jury is still out. The Piper hasn't come for the pay yet.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/world/coronavirus-news.ht...

Re: Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

#95
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see you've never personally experienced the US military I see you haven't bothered to actually look at the record. The U.S. Navy has decades of operating many nuclear reactors on ships and submarines with no incidents. > there's plenty of non-compliance and outright malfeasance without accountability Not in the U.S. Navy's nuclear program. Even what would be considered minor infractions in other parts of the mili…

What was the Thresher, SeaLab 1963? Rickover couldn’t throw everyone else under the bus fast enough after.

> What was the Thresher, SeaLab 1963?

Those were what the Navy calls subsafe incidents, not nuclear incidents. There was no problem with the reactor. The problem was what one of my Navy instructors called "water in the people tank"--a flaw in the welds that seal the interior of the ship or structure against water pressure from the outside. The Navy took major steps to improve the QA on those welds as a result of these incidents; when I was in the Navy we did three different types of nondestructive tests and a single flaw, no matter how minor, meant you had to redo the entire weld.

Re: Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

#96
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the Thresher, SeaLab 1963? Rickover couldn’t throw everyone else under the bus fast enough after.

> What was the Thresher, SeaLab 1963? Those were what the Navy calls subsafe incidents, not nuclear incidents. There was no problem with the reactor. The problem was what one of my Navy instructors called "water in the people tank"--a flaw in the welds that seal the interior of the ship or structure against water pressure from the outside. The Navy took major steps to improve the QA on those welds as a result of thes…

[deleted]

Re: Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given the choice; the vast majority of humans prefer to live in cities with population densities that are high. Moving to cities for economic opportunities is not a neutral choice in any sense. I’d question that most people actually prefer crowded cities.

The increased economic opportunity is part of the crowd package. Why don't you think it counts?

In the late 19th and early 20th century, millions of people moved to industrial centers like London, Manchester (U.K.) and Pittsburgh (USA) for work. These cities were extremely polluted, often to the point where you couldn't see the sun during the day. The exact same thing happened over the past few decades in China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London

https://popularpittsburgh.com/darkhistory/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_in_China

It seems pretty absurd to suggest that anyone neutrally "chose" to live in such miserable surroundings. Clearly they moved there for lack of economic opportunities elsewhere.

Re: Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

#98
post #37
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you've never personally experienced the US military... Kidding aside, while many service members do uphold their oath honorably, there's plenty of non-compliance and outright malfeasance without accountability. And to the grandparent, the military does run reactors outside of ships (but typically for research as far as I know)

> I see you've never personally experienced the US military I see you haven't bothered to actually look at the record. The U.S. Navy has decades of operating many nuclear reactors on ships and submarines with no incidents. > there's plenty of non-compliance and outright malfeasance without accountability Not in the U.S. Navy's nuclear program. Even what would be considered minor infractions in other parts of the mili…

The original comment was about the "US military" and not just the Navy. I'm assuming you're speaking from personal experience and that's why you mention the Navy specifically. The Navy does a great job, especially as it pertains to complex industrial systems. However, each branch and each unit has a unique culture and from my personal experience, the closer one gets to combat arms, the less bureaucratic and more "flexible" people tend to get with procedure.

Maybe your criteria is different for what constitutes a mishap, but the Navy has had what I think from a safety engineering standpoint would count as mishaps or at the very least close-calls. From just one decade:

December 12, 1971 – New London, Connecticut, US – Spill of irradiated water During the transfer of radioactive coolant water from the submarine USS Dace to the submarine tender USS Fulton 500 US gallons (1,900 l; 420 imp gal) were spilled into the Thames River (USA).

1975 – location unknown – Contamination Radioactive resin contaminates the American Sturgeon-class submarine USS Guardfish after wind unexpectedly blows the powder back towards the ship. The resin is used to remove dissolved radioactive minerals and particles from the primary coolant loops of submarines.

October 1975 – Apra Harbor, Guam – Spill of irradiated water While disabled, the submarine tender USS Proteus discharged radioactive coolant water. A Geiger counter at two of the harbor's public beaches showed 100 millirems/hour, fifty times the allowable dose.

May 22, 1978 – near Puget Sound, Washington, United States – Spill of irradiated water A valve was mistakenly opened aboard the submarine USS Puffer releasing up to 500 US gallons (1,900 l; 420 imp gal) of radioactive water

Maybe you were only considering nuclear reactor incidents? I can understand that perspective even if it probably doesn't meet safety engineering principles.

The numbers are greater if we use the OP's scope of "US military" and greater still if we count National Laboratories doing military funded work. I don't say this to disparage the military's competence, I actually think they are very good at managing complex systems. My main point is that I'm not convinced it's necessarily a byproduct of organizational structure of "chain of command" as the OP said.

Re: Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

#99
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the Thresher, SeaLab 1963? Rickover couldn’t throw everyone else under the bus fast enough after.

> What was the Thresher, SeaLab 1963? Those were what the Navy calls subsafe incidents, not nuclear incidents. There was no problem with the reactor. The problem was what one of my Navy instructors called "water in the people tank"--a flaw in the welds that seal the interior of the ship or structure against water pressure from the outside. The Navy took major steps to improve the QA on those welds as a result of thes…

But wasn’t scramming the reactor too quickly a crucial part of the incident? The procedures were inadequate

Re: Tokyo High Court slashes damages to Fukushima nuclear disaster evacuees

#100
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There will always be corruption, war and fraud. To be pro-nuclear, you have to guarantee political stability for 100+ years, and I don't think many places could guarantee that. Indeed. This is the crux of it. Nuclear run by the US military? Very safe. Nuclear (as a power source, not talking munitions) run by the rest of the world as a commercial operation? Fraught with peril. I'm not anti-nuclear; I'm anti-humans-r…

I have far more faith in nuclear run for-profit than nuclear run for-loss, as our South African state-owned enterprises have demonstrated.

Ah come on, that's not fair. The program is run for the profit of your ruling party. Elections and harems are expensive.
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