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Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

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Re: Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

#111

Post by ksdale »

chii wrote: post #110
ksdale wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be underestimating the extent to which a “small business owner loses a year of income” and “entire small business capsizes” are the same thing.

If the business gets a loan to last them through the crisis, they will pay it back when they earn money after the crisis. It means they are using future revenue to survive right now. The interest for this loan should be very low and if they default in the future, the govt takes the hit. The hope is that not all businesses will default at the same time, and just like the hospital, these loans flatten the default curve…

I understand that’s how it is meant to work, but I think small businesses are, on average, a lot closer to insolvency than people think. This is like offering low interest loans to... anyone to get through the crisis. It’s definitely better than nothing, but it doesn’t replace income, it just shifts it around (as you mentioned), which doesn’t help very much when you’re so close to insolvency. They’ll come out the other side with debt service payments that make business “survival” kind of pointless, unless there’s a ton of pent up demand and their revenue is much higher.

Re: Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

#112

Post by tzm »

ck2 wrote: post #79

I have absolutely no problem with any of this but I am wondering about those who foam at the mouth against "socialism" and if they realize that is exactly what this is. You can call it anything you want to feel better "bailout" etc. but it's 100% socialism I wonder if the hotel industry is also going to get only loans or instead unfettered cash with no need to repay, let's see how that one works with double standards…

Well, everyone becomes a socialist in a time of crisis.

Re: Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

#113

Post by chii »

ksdale wrote: post #111
chii wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the business gets a loan to last them through the crisis, they will pay it back when they earn money after the crisis. It means they are using future revenue to survive right now. The interest for this loan should be very low and if they default in the future, the govt takes the hit. The hope is that not all businesses will default at the same time, and just like the hospital, these loans flatten the default curve…

I understand that’s how it is meant to work, but I think small businesses are, on average, a lot closer to insolvency than people think. This is like offering low interest loans to... anyone to get through the crisis. It’s definitely better than nothing, but it doesn’t replace income, it just shifts it around (as you mentioned), which doesn’t help very much when you’re so close to insolvency. They’ll come out the oth…

> make business “survival” kind of pointless

they continue to survive and make the payments. Yes, profits will tank, but eventually they will pick back up. It's not like there's a better alternative. It's better than shutting doors - you may not be able to pick back up when this all blows over.

Re: Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

#114

Post by grecy »

_fq4v wrote: post #96
grecy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with you. Not everything is so black and white that it must be one thing or another. Socialism doesn't have to be "Total state control of the means of production", it can be piecemeal and applied to some parts of a society or economy and not others. Heathcare for all is not "welfare". It's the government taking tax dollars and then paying for things for all citizens. It's how the USA currently pays for Pol…

> What I'm saying is the US is adopting more socialist ideas, and it's spreading the tax dollars around to more and more citizens in more types of ways, like the rest of the developed world has been doing for decades very successfully. Rubbish. The Defense production act invoked today is from WWII and extremely limited in scope. After the crisis is over the government will be forced to give up these powers. And thank…

> And thank goodness. This is no way to run a free country in normal times

I take it you're aware of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and virtually ALL the other developed countries on the planet who function this way every day of the year and do very well.

Re: Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

#115

Post by boomboomsubban »

conanbatt wrote: post #106
boomboomsubban wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With that money, a bank checking account would make you a millionaire in months.

APY rates are 0.3% yearly. Not precisely raking it in..

I consider making three billion dollars in a year raking it in.

Re: Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

#116

Post by hnick »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #87
hnick wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By saying the brand itself has value, aren't you saying that if the owner gets into debt and has to sell it off to someone else it'll be just as good? That wouldn't give you pause? In many cases small businesses derive most of their quality from the actual owner. They don't respond well to drop-in replacements of key staff members and owners.

Well, in the case of toothpaste, it's not a small company. The restaurant... yeah, if they changed owners and blew up what I like about the place, that would kind of stink. Or, the new owner could be better than the old. That could happen, too. Either way, it wouldn't be the same... unless they hired back the key players.

Yeah it's a bit tough for some small businesses. Anything related to style (cake decorating, floral arrangements, graphic design, sign writing, etc) or other subjective tastes will often have a brand which has value with current customers but will easily lose it if someone else takes over. Even if the work is still solid, it can alienate existing customers.

Re: Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

#117

Post by tathougies »

grecy wrote: post #114
_fq4v wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I'm saying is the US is adopting more socialist ideas, and it's spreading the tax dollars around to more and more citizens in more types of ways, like the rest of the developed world has been doing for decades very successfully. Rubbish. The Defense production act invoked today is from WWII and extremely limited in scope. After the crisis is over the government will be forced to give up these powers. And thank…

> And thank goodness. This is no way to run a free country in normal times I take it you're aware of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and virtually ALL the other developed countries on the planet who function this way every day of the year and do very well.

Australia, Canada, and New Zealand don't have the same kinds of guarantees on freedom the United States does, frankly. I don't know much about the other three's laws and can't comment.

Re: Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

#118

Post by steveeq1 »

ttul wrote: post #53
steveeq1 wrote: post #36

Historically, how long does it take to go to hyperinflation when past governments started doing this? I need to know.

If GDP contracts 10% this year - a real possibility - there is literally zero chance of inflation. The real enemy is deflation.

"literally zero chance"?!?

Ok, I'm going to hold you to this. I am screenshoting it.

Re: Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

#119

Post by kortilla »

rapind wrote: post #34
kortilla wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate “bailouts” are just loans.

Not terribly interested in this thread, but for the record %0 interest loans when they're big (billions of dollars) are effectively the same as handing out free money. A bank would need to be ridiculously incompetent not to turn those loans into significant profits (and hey, give out executive bonuses too!).

Which 0% bailouts are you referring to that gave billions to a single company? Sounds a bit like a straw man to me.

Re: Senate passes bill to provide benefits to individuals and small businesses

#120

Post by grecy »

tathougies wrote: post #117
grecy wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And thank goodness. This is no way to run a free country in normal times I take it you're aware of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and virtually ALL the other developed countries on the planet who function this way every day of the year and do very well.

Australia, Canada, and New Zealand don't have the same kinds of guarantees on freedom the United States does, frankly. I don't know much about the other three's laws and can't comment.

Now I'm genuinely curious, as I lived 23 years in Australia. What freedoms are you talking about?
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