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U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to combat coronavirus

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to combat coronavirus

#131

Post by dsfyu404ed »

guscost wrote: post #39
bscphil wrote: post #28

The interesting thing about ideas like this is that they reveal how authoritarianism during times of stability does a terrible amount of damage during times of crisis. This is the sort of problem that could be solved in a better world; collecting location data to find interactions between people would allow you to get them tested faster and prevent a disease from spreading. But it simply can't be done in this country…

I’ve regressed to my cynical default in the past few days, but “a large institution that I would trust with this authority” sounds like pure fantasy.

I agree. Once you cross the point in organizational size where people stop feeling personally responsible for the organization and start feeling responsible to the organization it starts behaving like a sociopath in pursuit of whatever it's official goals are (shareholder value, catching criminals, etc).

You can mitigate this to some extent by having one or a couple people who are personally responsible for the whole organization (royal families in monarchies, the owners of privately owned companies, etc) but then your organixation is not resilient to bad leadership.

Re: U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to combat coronavirus

#132

Post by einpoklum »

rock_artist wrote: post #44

Israel started using cellphone tracking as of today. An in stable (transitional) government got an approval from the justice department. The tracking is based on location / cell data stored at the mobile operators and should be used for tracking people around a positive covid person to send text messages asking them to get into their home to a lock down for 14 days. Cellphone data is retrospective of course. However,…

The _interim_ government (_not_ an actual government), which is headed by a criminal who has been evading his trials on several corruption scandals for several years, has given itself approval to access people's geo-location data, phone conversation history, browsing history etc. using some covid-19-related excuse.

The government had initially tried to have parliament authorize this measure - but the "secret services" committee, discussing the matter, did _not_ approve immediately, requiring more information. So the government just used one of the draconian powers it has... thanks to anti-Palestinian legislation.

The tracking will _not_ be limited to covid-19 patients.

It is a total travesty.

It should be said in fairness that the legal infrastructure for this has been laid over a decade ago with the "Big Brother" law and the General Security Service law. People were silent about it then, and now the chickens have come home to roost.

Re: U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to combat coronavirus

#133

Post by GoblinSlayer »

bscphil wrote: post #28

The interesting thing about ideas like this is that they reveal how authoritarianism during times of stability does a terrible amount of damage during times of crisis. This is the sort of problem that could be solved in a better world; collecting location data to find interactions between people would allow you to get them tested faster and prevent a disease from spreading. But it simply can't be done in this country…

You describe anarchy. Capitalism exists because such trust is not achievable.

Re: U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to combat coronavirus

#134

Post by jcims »

kaybe wrote: post #99
guscost wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve regressed to my cynical default in the past few days, but “a large institution that I would trust with this authority” sounds like pure fantasy.

I would trust the CCC or the EFF with this I think, and the other paranoid fighters for privacy. But only as long as it takes for the to rotate their members enough for takeover by others. We've seen that wit smaller political parties as well. When membership suddenly become a viable path to power things change in the structure and people.

>But only as long as it takes for the to rotate their members enough for takeover by others.

This is the key. The power makes joining their ranks appealing to those that would abuse the power.

Re: U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to combat coronavirus

#135

Post by chippy »

dredmorbius wrote: post #31
ddmma wrote: post #21

‘in moments of crisis, people are willing to hand over a great deal of power to anyone who claims to have a magic cure—whether the crisis is a financial meltdown or, as the Bush administration would later show, a terrorist attack’ (Naomi Klein, The Shock Doctrine)

Speaking of Klein, she'll need to add a few elements to her Pandemic Shock Doctrine script: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/17/we-know-script-...

Klein has gotten lost in the anti-Trump personality rhetoric, she should re-gain her focus on the critic of society / anti capitalism roots. Basically a Democrat would be doing the same things as Republicans with regards to her warnings but you don't get as many books sold if you say that. And its more comfortable to think that if you just change one person it will all change than knowing that one removing person really doesnt change much.

Re: U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to combat coronavirus

#136

Post by chopin »

throwaway97777 wrote: post #80

Well, buckle up folks. Android's GLS service has an absolute insane data ingestion pipeline consisting of sensor fusion from GPS, Wifi, accelerometer, barometric data, and cell tower locations. It's accurate to within meters, can locate you inside buildings, can count your footsteps, and even knows what floor you've been on. It's been used by Google to tune its indoor WiFi maps and improve location accuracy for years…

I switched my phone off yesterday. I plan to power it on only on emergencies.

Re: U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to combat coronavirus

#137

Post by lioeters »

kaybe wrote: post #102
walterbell wrote: post #23

From https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615370/coronavirus-pandem... > We don’t know exactly what this new future looks like, of course. But one can imagine a world in which, to get on a flight, perhaps you’ll have to be signed up to a service that tracks your movements via your phone. The airline wouldn’t be able to see where you’d gone, but it would get an alert if you’d been close to known infected people or disea…

OK so people who don't carry their phone everywhere - is there no place for them in that world?

> demand you wear a monitor

Looks like that'll cover the rest of us..

Re: U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to combat coronavirus

#139

Post by creaghpatr »

bscphil wrote: post #42
guscost wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve regressed to my cynical default in the past few days, but “a large institution that I would trust with this authority” sounds like pure fantasy.

I don't know, maybe it is. Maybe the politics of our world simply are that cynical and won't allow for such a thing to exist. But I guess I'm hoping it isn't. I'm trying to imagine how a non-authoritarian institution would work; it wouldn't have the "authority" to compel anyone to turn over their data, but just about everyone would have enough trust in the community and its decision making process to be okay with it.…

From a sovereignty perspective, that's a nonstarter.

Re: U.S. govt, tech industry discuss using location data to combat coronavirus

#140

Post by chadlavi »

throwaway97777 wrote: post #80

Well, buckle up folks. Android's GLS service has an absolute insane data ingestion pipeline consisting of sensor fusion from GPS, Wifi, accelerometer, barometric data, and cell tower locations. It's accurate to within meters, can locate you inside buildings, can count your footsteps, and even knows what floor you've been on. It's been used by Google to tune its indoor WiFi maps and improve location accuracy for years…

Seems like a good time not to have a phone made by a company whose profits mainly come from selling you data.

oH BUt It'S NoT a waLLeD GArdEn!1

ffs.

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