Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why N95 masks are hard to make

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 363 posts

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#91

Post by fortran77 »

droithomme wrote: post #2

Surgical and homemade masks are much better than nothing. And by better than nothing we mean reasonably effective. Going into close contact with a person who has a known transmissible respiratory illness? N95 is minimum if you are a professional. And get your union to scream bloody murder if you are not allowed this essential safety equipment, and put complaints in writing so your heirs can later sue to oblivion. Try…

Here's a paper that shows that "homemade masks" made from tea cloths were reasonably effective

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/

I'm using a homemade mask made from hepa filter material between two layers of dish towel material when I go out. I tie it around so it completely covers my nose and mouth and extents It will probably help if a person a few feet away coughs at me, as happened in the store today. And if I should cough, I may not infect someone else, if I am carrying.

And it may keep me from accidentally touching my face

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#92

Post by SirLuxuryYacht »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #70
SirLuxuryYacht wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says about masks, that cannot be made en masse. This is due to a flu, which will likely flow through, your fabric and not meltblown pads.

The virus is carried in tiny droplets in the air, usually from a cough or sneeze. Any mask that catches those helps prevent virus spread to and from you. So literally a bandana covering your face is going to prevent some. Of course it won't be as effective as a legit N95 or N99 mask, maybe it's only 10% as effective, but that is not the same as being totally ineffective. Further, any form of masks provides a psycholo…

The main goal is minimizing leaks and making sure air flows through material. While a bandana would not be totally ineffective, there's room for innovation:

> A Hanes Heavyweight 100% preshrunk cotton T-shirt (made in Honduras) [...] was boiled for 10 minutes and air-dried

> A commercially available N95 respirator requires a fit factor of 100

> The prototype mask achieved a fit factor of 67

> We showed that a hand-fashioned mask can provide a good fit and a measurable level of protection from a challenge aerosol. [...] When made by naive users, this mask may be less effective because of variations in material, assembly, facial structure, cultural practices, and handling

From "Simple Respiratory Mask" (2006) http://dx.doi.org/10.3201/eid1206.051468

edit: formatting

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#93

Post by dehrmann »

Generally good quote about Chinese manufacturing:

> China can be all over the place. Sometimes you think you're in a Western factory. Others are kind of like a dirt floor sort of shanty trying to pass their stuff off as good as the other guys. And maybe it is.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#94

Post by _2d30 »

snowwrestler wrote: post #68
_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

No country has the manufacturing base to meet the demand for these masks under a pandemic, not even China. That’s what the article is all about. Your thoughts on the merits of trade wars are not applicable.

Who defines what's applicable on HN? This article discusses Chinese supply chains and a manufacturing shortage for a specific need the result of which is decreased national security.

If there is another country (USA) which has relatively significantly diminished supply chains and manufacturing capacity and therefore has an even greater national security risk, why is that not applicable to be discussed? If, further, there is an opportunity and process by which that country (USA) could close that gap, why is it not applicable to be discussed?

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#95

Post by tcbawo »

agumonkey wrote: post #80

any simpler process to make nanofiltering ? not necessarily tissue but maybe ceramic, or other solids (like activated charcoal)

Do we even have to do nanofiltering? What about a breathing mask/apparatus like firefighters use? In theory they should be quite reusable.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#96

Post by generatorguy »

ironmagma wrote: post #41
dan_quixote wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy to say now, but there's just not enough manpower to make _everything_ in house that we deem strategically important. And if the price isn't viable on the free market, how is it justifiable long term? I generally agree with your sentiment though.

Not enough manpower at the moment, for sure, but we should create it through education and social investment. It's generally a strategic advantage to have manufacturing capabilities no matter what discipline; it's less that we are reliant on China for this one particular thing and more that we have allowed our once-strong manufacturing muscle to atrophy. We subsidize gas heavily because it's a strategic advantage to…

I think you are bang on with capabilities vs capacity. We should have one factory for anything critical so that in case we can’t get as much as we need on the free market we can ramp up capacity by building more of the machine that makes the product. If you don’t have all of the know how that is in that machine or plant design already in your one factory making the product you are starting from zero. Hence why all of China’s cheap labour deals had technology transfer riders.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#97

Post by agumonkey »

tcbawo wrote: post #95
agumonkey wrote: post #80

any simpler process to make nanofiltering ? not necessarily tissue but maybe ceramic, or other solids (like activated charcoal)

Do we even have to do nanofiltering? What about a breathing mask/apparatus like firefighters use? In theory they should be quite reusable.

well maybe nano was too small, say micro and yeah I had masks with cartridges in mind

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#98

Post by dehrmann »

_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

> a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need

It's a strong argument for diverse suppliers, but unless you're a major international player, you don't really have the need, and having redundant manufacturing gets expensive. Just look at people balking at the cost of switching away from Huawei (that's a name I haven't heard for a few weeks).

> the trade war along with serious investment in expanding industrial capacity is likely net good.

But it makes war easier. You know who's not going to war? The US and China. If they did, they'd be economically screwed. Economic interdependence makes war a lot harder.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#99

Post by doodlebugging »

muzani wrote: post #82
koolba wrote: post #4

> China now makes 200 million face masks a day — more than twenty times the amount it made at the start of February. That’s an insane number of masks. Does one in seven Chinese wear a fresh one every day ? Is this gonna be the new normal?

I bought N95 masks a few times. It was pricey - about as much as a latte. I can't afford that every day, so I recycled the mask a few times. (This was not for COVID-19, but some other issues when my wife was in ICU and air pollution issues) China can export those masks if they're not using them. Right now it's printing money. But even when this pandemic blows over, they'll still sell for a good price in countries wit…

I think you are right that there will be a premium on these type masks after all this blows over regardless of supply. Especially in countries that have no domestic production capabilities.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#100

Post by prostheticvamp »

azurezyq wrote: post #47
est31 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those masks aren't N95 class meaning they can't be used by care workers. Of the N95 class masks, only 600k are manufactured daily, which isn't enough by far, especially when growth of patient numbers continues.

Care workers are in tiers. Not everyone needs a N95. Not to mention there a are only 8k active covid cases in China now.

The N95s are for everyone expected to have direct exposure to patients with covid19. There’s no “tier” of healthcare professional that is unworthy of protection.
Post reply on HN