Why N95 masks are hard to make • Hacker News Board

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#51

Post by bamboozled » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 3:32 AM UTC

_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

A “superpower” who can’t seem make enough masks to protect its own medical professionals from a pandemic. It’s an interesting situation.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#52

Post by bootlooped » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 3:32 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #46

_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

All the workers being replaced by automation and having to rely on "gig economy" work could pursue manufacturing instead. We have the workforce. We can pay workers livable wages and give them meaningful work. Cost of goods could be reduced through greater efficiency. Research into robotics and automation could fuel a new decade of American growth.

How can you in once sentence say we can employ workers previously displaced by automation, and in the next sentence assert that we can produce these goods at a competitive price with automation?

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#53

Post by BubRoss » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 3:32 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #46

_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

All the workers being replaced by automation and having to rely on "gig economy" work could pursue manufacturing instead. We have the workforce. We can pay workers livable wages and give them meaningful work. Cost of goods could be reduced through greater efficiency. Research into robotics and automation could fuel a new decade of American growth.

Who is being replaced by automation and becoming forced to rely on the gig economy?

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#54

Post by TrainedMonkey » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 3:32 AM UTC

ironmagma wrote: post #3

This is the price we pay for outsourcing our manufacturing capabilities. We should have kept in-house manufacturing alive, there is plenty of capacity for it here in the States.

I am not so sure because the cost of keeping the in-house manufacturing is also high. Consider military industrial complex, a bunch of companies had been kept alive through exclusive government contracts for 60+ years [1]. The result are companies optimizing for lobbying for maximum government dollars instead of efficiency or innovation. For example spreading the supply chain across every state: https://twitter.com/VP/status/971876888447725568?ref_src=tws...

I believe fragmentation costs of the supply chain are incredibly high. Especially when the supply chain is top down and sources complex components. A problem with the supplier causes the whole project to be delayed. I think this is a major contributing reason of some recent mega-project delays (SLS, F35, James Webb [2], your favorite mega-project here[3]...)

1. Since 1961 per Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_co...

2. Nobody built one before, but I feel like a lot of the screw ups could have been avoided.

3. Being a little facetious, mega-projects are hard.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#55

Post by Ericson2314 » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 3:33 AM UTC

_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

Does one of the n95 cotton candy machines even exist in the US?

I would love to see the specs for them made free and open so anyone could attempt to produce one and then have it vetted.

Contributing to e.g. firmware code for the thing is like the only meaningful thing I could put my skills towards in this epidemic. It would be an honor to do so.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#56

Post by BubRoss » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 3:35 AM UTC

koolba wrote: post #4

> China now makes 200 million face masks a day — more than twenty times the amount it made at the start of February. That’s an insane number of masks. Does one in seven Chinese wear a fresh one every day ? Is this gonna be the new normal?

It is for scooter riders on dirt roads in Vietnam. For people going through their day one way or another the virus won't last forever.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#57

Post by cycrutchfield » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 3:35 AM UTC

_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

Would be much less of a problem if we actually stockpiled enough masks like we were supposed to.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#58

Post by _2d30 » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 3:36 AM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #55

_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

Does one of the n95 cotton candy machines even exist in the US? I would love to see the specs for them made free and open so anyone could attempt to produce one and then have it vetted. Contributing to e.g. firmware code for the thing is like the only meaningful thing I could put my skills towards in this epidemic. It would be an honor to do so.

I believe so, yes.

An interesting article here about some history: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/05/8113874...

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#59

Post by spyckie2 » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 3:36 AM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #51

_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

A “superpower” who can’t seem make enough masks to protect its own medical professionals from a pandemic. It’s an interesting situation.

When the hard constraint is not losing profit, many things are difficult to do.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#60

Post by Consultant32452 » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 3:36 AM UTC

koolba wrote: post #4

> China now makes 200 million face masks a day — more than twenty times the amount it made at the start of February. That’s an insane number of masks. Does one in seven Chinese wear a fresh one every day ? Is this gonna be the new normal?

Let's imagine you are a medical professional at a drive-through Corona testing facility, like the ones they just announced will be in Walmart parking lots across the country. You get fully suited up head to toe including N95 mask, googles, etc. You take a sample from ONE person, that person leaves, you now take off every piece of gear and put on a new set. You can sanitize your goggles, but the N95 mask has to be disposed of.

Let's imagine you're a nurse at an ICU. You have two patients, as is customary for most ICUs. Every 15-20 mins you have to suit up, check your patient, unsuit, resuit, check other patient. Every 15-20 mins you are using two N95 masks. You do this 3-4 times per hour 24 hours a day. And you're just the nurse. You also have doctors, respiratory therapists, techs, and other people coming in and out of the room, all of whom will be disposing of an N95 mask.